Last Laugh is overpowered | Forums

[DeepfriedOgre]

There's this feat that means "you die if you kill me and there is no way to dodge or survive it: be it revenge (it deals ~150 dmg, essentially killing you in almost any situation) or rolling (hits under a second + has a huge radius, so even if you realize it quickly, you can't roll out of it)". The name's Last Laugh, and my personal opinion is that it's overpowered.

I think this feat is unfair compared to other lvl 4 feats: catapult and its counterparts are at least dodgeable (and don't even deal this high damage AFAIK), this though, it allows killing an entire team just out of their misfortune being near you when you die. This feat has no counterplay in its current setting as it really is a guaranteed kill with its massively over-the-top Hitokiri-level damage (also being AoE, unlike Hitokiri's attack, which aside from being single-target, is quite dodgeable).

I get that this triggers only when you die (so you can't use it in any situation) but not being able to play against this feat makes it so much more powerful than the rest. I'd propose either lowering the damage output of Last Laugh (at least to around 60, but you still can't dodge it then) or reducing its effect area to at least make eagle-eyed players be able to dodge it by not executing and rolling. It's really annoying to lose a match just because you're duelling someone from the enemy and you win the duel - but hey, they just drop an undodgeable kill-anyone bomb, and so you didn't win nothin', you fool. Why didn't you use another throwable feat to snipe that person from far away? I mean, why won't the bomb explode instantly, then? It's almost the same as if it did (maybe your teammates on perimeter can dodge it).

[p0wn3rki11]

I don't feel the damage output of Last Laugh is the issue, as it is in-line with the other tier 4 feats, right around that 150-200 range. The issue is the time you get to dodge. You mention in your post that unless you use a ranged feat or predict/see it instantly and react almost instantly, you die. Which is true, i have seen players blown up mid-dodge because they were a hair too late. It needs a longer time before detonating, not a damage nerf. Now this doesn't mean give it the catapult treatment and make it take so long that only morons die to it. What i mean is make it long enough that if you react well enough in time to seeing it you dodge it, not much longer, but enough so you can actually react to it.

[Chump94]

It doesn't go off if you execute the opponent and has a pretty long cooldown I wouldn't say its op. Hell even sometimes as gladiator I got hit by it and survived with 1 hp.

[Lord.Warden.]

This is one of the most braindead and skillless feats in the entire game. Ban/Nerf please.

[DeepfriedOgre]

It doesn't go off if you execute the opponent and has a pretty long cooldown I wouldn't say its op. Hell even sometimes as gladiator I got hit by it and survived with 1 hp.

Yes, but given that this can make or break a match when a team is breaking, I think it would be fair to give players time to at least try to dodge it. If the cooldown is that high, maybe it could be reduced in exchange for also lowering the explosion range and/or the time for the bomb to go off.

Also, speaking of executions: you probably won't execute a player in a teamfight situation (where if your execution doesn't finish because someone hits you, the grenade goes off if I'm correct, so you also get a stagger = guaranteed kill), which is likely what happens in 4v4 modes where this feat is also enabled.

[Gunthaarr]

The feat is indeed easy to use in group fights. The person using it can die voluntarily to a sweep of an attack that is not aimed at them and the person using the attack will be stuck in the animation for too long to dodge the feat, taking at least 50 damage. I, too, believe that the feat needs around 400 MS more time on the fuse so these cases of being stuck in an animation can be accounted for.

[Gaser.]

I generally not a fan of most aoe dmg feats in game.

I personally think only nuxias Infection is the only fair one.

I never really understood why they didn’t make bombs in general like they are in the story.

Medium dmg, fast throwing with small aoe that will only hit other targets when they pretty much almost shoulder to shoulder with the person.

In general I would love to see a general decrease in the aoe range and make them have smaller aoe.

I don’t really see how these bomb feats that can have these massive aoe zones that almost rival catapults aoe zone while they allowed to be used in doors, which normally would save you from the really hard hitting feats.

In there current state bombs are useless in 1v1 situations but can make you win teamfights or make teamfights unwinable while you not even need to be part of the fight.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

That feat has multiple drawbacks. It deals only 120 damage, I have survived it with bp a lot of times, it is even easier with defense buffs. It deals even less damage on the edges. The bomb goes off without your consent no matter what at the moment you die- in fact, it will go off if you were killed in 20 seconds before it cooled down, usually in a totally abandoned place. It has insane 150s cooldown. And there are ways around it, the easiest is to execute, but it is not exactly a secret if the opponent has it or not, if you watch your recoveries, you will be able to dodge out (I have done it with multiple heroes). It is one of the weakest level 4 feats, it needs either a buff or rework (cd lowering and chance to control it in exchange for damage).

[Dragtyr]

In there current state bombs are useless in 1v1 situations but can make you win teamfights or make teamfights unwinable while you not even need to be part of the fight.

I wouldn't call them useless. Throw bomb, GB immediatly, both of you explode while you lose like 10 health and the enemy the full amount. They can be pretty nasty if timed correctly.

[DeepfriedOgre]

It deals only 120 damage

Which is exactly enough to kill at least 2 people even at almost full health with minimal dodge opportunity, since it's an AoE. Like I said, this feat can be used in 4v4 modes, where you might just waste it if you die in a 1v1 (so that's truly a drawback, but you're also more likely to get executed there, so then it's not wasted), but especially when the enemy team is breaking, it can kill half the team when fighting over a zone (where you're also limited in dodging since, you know, collisions). This is the aspect that I'm not happy with: it just feels so unfair that you're trying to parry 3 people but you also have to be careful not to kill the PK where your whole team is because you all go down (and she'll just try to get among you, get hit accidentally and take down 3 of you with herself). It's not some moderate damage, either. Near the center (even towards the edges), it can take down heroes with high health.

I understand the reasoning of high cooldown and """"limited"""" usability, but that limited usability will just be able to end the enemy team in a teamfight, practically not leaving them any time to think about dodging (because you might be targeting someone else and blocking an incoming attack is enough not to be able to roll out of the bomb's range). Also, I guess that few hundred ms is just short enough to realize the feat and react to it.

the easiest is to execute

In a proper teamfight you're probably not going to be able to execute the person, especially if you're playing a hero with slower executions - there are numerous ways to stop it (maybe not if you're Hitokiri or BP with their blazing fast executions, but this is not a universal counter). If that doesn't work out, you have a higher chance of not being able to dodge it due other people (your team or the enemies) or just obstacles being around you.

It is one of the weakest level 4 feats

Which ones do you consider stronger, then? Catapult, arrow storm and spear storm (some other AoE level 4 feats) all have a more reasonable amount time to realize that it's going to hit and try to dodge (also louder sound effect), and they're not 30-60 seconds on cooldown either if I'm correct. They're also probably not that much bigger in their hit area to compensate the higher time to react. I still believe that the drawbacks of Last Laugh are outweighed by its potential advantage in certain critical situations (like the breaking part I've mentioned).

it needs either a buff or rework (cd lowering and chance to control it in exchange for damage).

I'm content with reducing the CD of the ability, but I'd either give players a reasonable amount of time to dodge it in an n vs m teamfight, or lower the damage output of it. Alternatively, distribute the damage so it can deal high damage to a single target, but if it hits multiple people, it would deal significantly less to each individual.