Option to turn off tiered weapons | Forums

[Chrish62704]

I can only speak for myself, but I think tiered weapons were a horrible idea for this game. I can’t play with my favorite weapon, I have to play with a random high tiered weapon to progress. It takes away from the game since I’m constantly getting distracted with finding new gear instead of focusing on playing the actual game. My inventory is so full of junk and I have to constantly stop playing to disassemble or sell it. It also slows coop since we’re all in our inventories updating our gear. The Wildlands model was perfect for an RPG shooter. It’s the worst aspect of Breakpoint and, if you read through the comments, an idea that was badmouthed well before it’s launch.

Giving us the option to turn it off would allow players who enjoy this monotony to keep tiering up while the rest of us get to play the game.

[imru7]

You don’t have to use a higher level weapon to progress, you can beat the game with the pistol they give you at the beginning if you really wanted to. Progress is just that, progressing through the story or whatever..other than needing a gear score of 150 for the Raid, there are no limiting factors surrounding gear score.

You really need to just get the blueprint for whatever weapons you use regularly, and craft them as your gear score increases. Having a gun that’s -5 your gear score isn’t going to hurt you at all, as gear score is an average anyways.

I just dissemble what I don’t want at the end of a session or before my next one when I’m in coop so that whole sitting in your menus doesn’t slow down the game. But I mean if you get a piece of gear you wanna use it takes 2 seconds to select it.

I do think they need a better way to organize your gear, especially your weapons...including a way to select multiple gears to dissemble in bulk (and sell in bulk). Scrolling down a list thats organized by descending gear score is tedious when you’re looking for a a specific elite or high-end weapon that has ideal bonuses for your pvp strategy or mission.

[DualFlameBane]

I... well, I have to agree.

Equipment should have perks that MAKE SENSE. So, a rifle shouldn't give an agility or stamina bonus, frex. In fact almost all equipment (maybe not hats) should have a stamina PENALTY to represent weight and bulkiness. A vertical foregrip might ease recoil. And all clothing and vests should have stealth bonuses or penalties based upon the colors or pattern and what terrain you're in: woodland, alpine, transitional, urban, or marine (swimming). Etc.

Oh, and rocket launchers should take up a weapon slot. Make it something reloadable like a M3-E1 Gustav or Mk.153 SMAW, and you carry rockets for it in your pack. (The SMAW would be a bit lighter and have a more believable 1-person reload animation, but heck have both!) And you should have different warhead choices: HE, HEAT, or thermobaric. If you really want some little disposable thing you could also have M72 LAWs that are just carried in the pack. The M72 has the virtue of being incredibly light, but is somewhat short-ranged and the sights suck. But I've seen them in SOCOM armories. Several variants are available.

[imru7]

I... well, I have to agree.

Equipment should have perks that MAKE SENSE. So, a rifle shouldn't give an agility or stamina bonus, frex. In fact almost all equipment (maybe not hats) should have a stamina PENALTY to represent weight and bulkiness. A vertical foregrip might ease recoil. And all clothing and vests should have stealth bonuses or penalties based upon the colors or pattern and what terrain you're in: woodland, alpine, transitional, urban, or marine (swimming). Etc.

Oh, and rocket launchers should take up a weapon slot. Make it something reloadable like a M3-E1 Gustav or Mk.153 SMAW, and you carry rockets for it in your pack. (The SMAW would be a bit lighter and have a more believable 1-person reload animation, but heck have both!) And you should have different warhead choices: HE, HEAT, or thermobaric. If you really want some little disposable thing you could also have M72 LAWs that are just carried in the pack. The M72 has the virtue of being incredibly light, but is somewhat short-ranged and the sights suck. But I've seen them in SOCOM armories. Several variants are available.

Weapons don’t give agility or stamina bonuses. They’re accuracy, handling, range, mobility (which is specific to speed and agility while aiming), reload speed, etc...things that make sense, as the weapons are really giving themselves a buff.

Many of the gear bonuses are things like speed, throwing range, stealth, stamina, injury resistance, etc.

The level customization you’re talking about is very extreme and would push this game even further into the RPG realm...plus needing to change you camo after every mission would really slow things down. There’s a reason why the military uses universal camo pattern as it’s effective in multiple environments.

[OppositeCoast94]

I think the problem with getting rid of tiered loot/gun scores is the difficulty level in this game cannot be seperated from the gear/gun score. The difficulty isn’t just the physical number of enemies or their ranging efficiency but what damage they can do based on your gear score. I understand you can headshot everybody at any gear level but you will inevitably miss and the chaos following should be half the fun/tension. An unfair fight can be fun, a rigged fight isn’t.

Being able to turn off everything tiered would instantly enhance the game for me, even just ignoring the tiering makes the game more immersive.

If people enjoy the tiered system that’s great and in other games I believe the tiered system can work great. Tiered items is such a fundamental mechanic of Breakpoint that removing it, even just for guns, seems impossible. A toggle would be great, game changing great, but in reality probably means a new game.

[JPR8]

No tiered weapons would be perfect for Breakpoint's version of Ghost Mode when they implement that soon in the future.

[Scipio_91]

The tiered system is complete garbage and has no place in the ghost recon franchise

[ArgimonEd]

Weapons don’t give agility or stamina bonuses. They’re accuracy, handling, range, mobility (which is specific to speed and agility while aiming), reload speed, etc...things that make sense, as the weapons are really giving themselves a buff.

Many of the gear bonuses are things like speed, throwing range, stealth, stamina, injury resistance, etc.

The level customization you’re talking about is very extreme and would push this game even further into the RPG realm...plus needing to change you camo after every mission would really slow things down. There’s a reason why the military uses universal camo pattern as it’s effective in multiple environments.

I didn't see any of his request to be RPG in any regard, and although the universal camouflages might work, if really needed (Specially SOF units) Will use other camouflages available to match the terrain better, for example, Multicam works in the amazon.
But if we were to separate the effective into levels.

- Like painting a target on yourself.
- Horrible
- Mediocre
- Meh
- Kind of work
- Ok
- Works kind of well
- Works well
- Will camouflage you effectively

In the amazon for example, multicam in most of the situations would fluctuate between, Meh and ok...If you are between the foliage and the lightning is favorable to you, might go up to Works kind of well.

And I don't see how this would slow you down that much, since the game map sectors, kind of there are more then 1 sector with a particular biome, so you could play a lot of the campaign parts or other missions without needing to change that much.
Or you could do as you said and go with the meh camouflage because it isn't bad, but isn't good so you're good.

[DarkkStarr387]

+1 would appreciate an option to disable this feature. It just doesn't feel appropriate in a GR game. Angry Gamer Review describe it best: Breakpoint feels like a Diet Division .

[DualFlameBane]

Weapons don’t give agility or stamina bonuses. They’re accuracy, handling, range, mobility (which is specific to speed and agility while aiming), reload speed, etc...things that make sense, as the weapons are really giving themselves a buff.

Realistically, all of this should be done with accessories rather than just being a weapon buff. That's what I'm saying. For instance even a range buff for a sniper rifle or DMR, which one might otherwise find hard to justify, could be explained by the addition of a spirit level, inclinometer, anemometer or rangefinder. (I would give better buffs in that order.) A laser sight might add to accuracy of an assault rifle when fired "from the hip" so to speak. A reload speed buff is a beveled magazine well. Etc. And this mechanism is ALREADY in the game, because things like foregrips already add buffs, so just expand it a bit.

If you really wanted to you could even keep the levels, with the accessories adding levels to a given weapon. I just threw up a little bit in my mouth as I typed that, but if Ubi is really committed to levels then my method makes a HECK of a lot more sense. The accessory adds levels to whatever the weapon's base level is. Even the various optics could add levels. And skill points would add levels.

Doesn't that make more sense to everyone? I certainly think it would be less OFFENSIVE to all the people (including me) who complain about the levels right now.

This is also how, if Ubi is really set on doing it, they can monetize via microtransactions in a way that won't piss off too many players. You sell stuff that's largely just cosmetic- like a rifle that is more "kewl" but not really significantly more effective in-game. (Should there really be a significant game difference between the M4A1, 416, and 556 in the game? I say no. Likewise, all the bullpup ASRs should have very similar stats, with better handling but slower reloads.) But don't sell the accessories that provide the buffs! I mean, yes, all weapons should be findable in-game, but if some impatient fanboi is willing to plop down cash for what is really just a cosmetic change, well, all the more power to him. Squeeze until it hurts. And he'll be obvious to everyone else because he's the kid with all the kewl equipment but none of the accessories, and thus a low level. (Because I do understand the utility of levels for game developers for warning players that they might be getting in over their heads. I just find it an unsatisfying and hollow mechanism personally.) This is all especially true if the kewl weapon drops are scaled to the lowest difficulty setting you used during the mission...

Or, heck, maybe Ubi could sell cosmetic-only versions of some accessories that offer no buffs, for those who just want to look "kewl". These would not add levels.

Many of the gear bonuses are things like speed, throwing range, stealth, stamina, injury resistance, etc.

Yes, exactly. With the exception (in principle- see below) of things like stealth and stamina this is SO ridiculous that it messes with my suspension of disbelief and greatly detracts from my enjoyment of the game. I can't be alone. Replacing it all with stealth nerfs and buffs makes more sense, especially since this game is, in so many ways, a stealth game. I would also add stamina nerfs to almost all gear based upon weight and bulkiness. Admittedly, both of these would require some significant rework of the stealth and stamina systems.

Things like greater throwing range should be in the SKILL TREE, representing physical conditioning. I would recommend several levels being available for of each of Cardio and Strength training. Cardio training buffs Stamina and to a lesser extent breath holding. (There would still be a separate Breath Holding buff, since that can be trained separately IRL.) Strength training cuts a percentage off your stamina penalty for gear weight, buffs throwing range slightly, increases CQC damage though I'm not sure how that mechanism really works in the game, and also buffs recoil slightly. (There would still be a separate Throwing buff in the skill tree, since this IS a skill that can be trained separately from just being strong. For that matter recoil management can be trained separately, too.) So your Assaulter would likely want to really spend points on Strength training to carry heavier gear and armor. (Because armor should actually do something in the game. A damage resistance buff is better than nothing I guess, but I would rather that it worked more realistically.)

The level [of] customization you’re talking about is very extreme and would push this game even further into the RPG realm...plus needing to change you camo after every mission would really slow things down. There’s a reason why the military uses universal camo pattern as it’s effective in multiple environments.

No kidding? Well then, if you didn't want to be changing your camo all the time you could, well... be sure to equip yourself with one of those "universal" patterns! Right? Frankly, even a basic green or brown isn't a horribly bad universal pattern, and would be pretty available in-game, so this would not in any way be a game-stopper, but it would still allow the gear fetishists to play around with equipment with varying camo patterns. Ghillie components could add a special extra stealth buff when immobile or crawling prone (which is pretty slow in this game). But they would be heavy, hot, and bulky, leading to stamina nerfs for the weight (as above) and also some sort of mobility nerfs. Really, the bones of all these changes already exist in this game! And it would be SO much better. I can even think of ways to make civilian clothes be "stealthy" in civilian areas, if only we had concealable pistol holsters and could shove an SMG or M320 into a civilian backpack along with the grenades and C4 charges... sigh. See my earlier post.

I don't think that this level of customization is all that extreme. In fact, I think that a LOT of what drivers the players of these games is the aforementioned gear fetishism. So, indulge them- let them play around customizing. Isn't that what you all want to do?

This might be another way to monetize without pissing off too many people. Allow players to "buy" permanent access to a camouflage pattern/color with real money. Then, whenever you acquire a new piece of kit, if you want to you can change it to a pattern that you own, but only ONCE, and only if it's IRL available for that piece of kit. So, for instance, if you change it to multicam you cannot later change it to arctic even if you own both patterns. So, you can't just keep switching it around at whim, but the fanboi does get to pay for the privilege of keeping his kit all uniform and pretty. (Which is actually quite unrealistic and thus betrays them as poseurs, but as I said, if they're willing to pay... squeeze. Every operator that I have ever worked with had all sorts of mismatched kit.) Presumably Ubi would charge more for the more kewl patterns, like Multicam and ATACs, etc., whereas just being able to make everything black would be pretty cheap. Green and brown would be in between.

There are some great ways that gear carriage could be improved, too (basically, to be more like Escape from Tarkov) but that would be a bigger core change. I have posted about this before, too, somewhat.

But if, for instance, there were a way to select what MOLLE pouches you attached to your vest it would be another opportunity for much less offensive microtransactions. For a much smaller fee than buying an entire camo pattern that can be used over and over you could buy SINGLE examples of various MOLLE pouches in whatever pattern you like. Or even better, buy the right to change ONE item that you already have to a given pattern or color. Buying permanent access to a pattern that you could apply to multiple objects forever (as above) would be relatively expensive, presumably. And again, the "kewl" patterns like Multicam would obviously cost more than a simple solid color, for example. Also again, you would still be able to find accessories in these patterns in-game, although they wouldn't be common. Only solid black, green, and the two browns would be VERY common.

Each MOLLE pouch would also add a small level boost, since they let you carry more magazines and other stuff in easily accessible fashion- especially if you can get stuff out of a MOLLE pouch or IFAK significantly faster than out of a pack. And that equates to capability, which is what levels are supposed to measure, right?

Here's another microtransaction for you- say for example that essentially all "vests" would have eight MOLLE slots and all "harnesses" would have six MOLLE slots. So, there really isn't a FUNCTIONAL difference between them. So, let the fetishists buy them, too, but only in the (generally common and thus "unkewl") black color, which is also not terribly effective as a camo pattern. Then, they can buy a camo change to their preferred pattern as well if they like. If you could track plates separately you could do the same with plate carriers. Don't sell the plates!
Likewise, all pants would have three MOLLE slots, so you could sell pants and shirts, though I'm not sure they'd sell well. Really, I could come up with a much better system a lot like Tarkov's that's still gamey enough to be easily playable.