For Spam. Good or Bad for the game? | Forums

[Zombie.Face]

spam is good for new or low level players to be able to compete but higher level players can deal with it. so 2 low level players spamming each other even if one is a bit better will feel more balanced for the worse player. as the players get faster and more spammy unblock able moves the game becomes more noob friendly. I've noticed lots of higher level players are leaving due to this. its not because they die to it but its the fact that even if u can deal with it is it really fun? when players say "if u die to spam its your fault and higher level players can deal with it fine". while this may be true, i can't stand fighting against it. sure its pretty easy to deal with but its not fun to fight against. the game was more fun when players had to out think the opponent and now if you try to mind game you will most likely just get spam hit out of it anyway. so your stuck blocking and parrying fast boring attacks. i really miss the mind game tactics of the game before this newer spammy meta. then hyper armor coming out more and more.. this is a whole other thread but its catering to low level players as well. my question is for players who can easily deal with spam, are you having a good experience doing this? personally i think its the most boring thing ever, even if its easy to deal with. let me know, does anyone really push for spam? even noobs? its not fun for anyone. correct me if im wrong.

[Temdee.]

I think light attacks should be brought down to 8-12 damage, stuns should be removed, and parries shouldn't take your stamina.

Gives players a reason to start their combos but not do so much damage that you need nothing other than light attacks.

[Siegfried-Z]

Some people will always spam.. fast lights, bash.. doesnt matter.

Most people like to spam and ez things.

Still lights spam isnt even a thing on PC and is possible to deal with on console. I play on console and if i just focus on blocking i can block most lights.

Bash spam is much harder to deal with, especially when those bash doesnt even have recovery as BP for exemple. But at least they feed lots of revenge so as a 4v4 only player i feel ok with it.

[Soldier_of_Dawn]

Some people will always spam.. fast lights, bash.. doesnt matter.

Most people like to spam and ez things.

Still lights spam isnt even a thing on PC and is possible to deal with on console. I play on console and if i just focus on blocking i can block most lights.

Bash spam is much harder to deal with, especially when those bash doesnt even have recovery as BP for exemple. But at least they feed lots of revenge so as a 4v4 only player i feel ok with it.

Light spam is a thing on PC as well. Not everyone has great reactions and I've fought players that can parry 500ms lights with ease and those that can't even block them consistently. The in-game chat does have complaints about light spam too and not all of the complainers are bad. Yes, the spam meta is easier to deal with on PC but many of us find it annoying too.

[UbiInsulin]

I think light attacks should be brought down to 8-12 damage, stuns should be removed, and parries shouldn't take your stamina.

Gives players a reason to start their combos but not do so much damage that you need nothing other than light attacks.

This lines up with a lot of the higher health pool/lower stamina costs feedback that I've been seeing and relaying to the team.

[Knight_Raime]

I don't really believe the game inherently became more "spammable" intentionally. I think the availability of better offensive moves has increased. And people's lack of skill sets are showing because of this. Like Warden's bash was pretty much always spammable and difficult to handle for low to average players. Same with warlord's headbutt. and pk's zone/lights. There was just less kits involved and less viable moves involved.

While i'm not saying all things are perfectly balanced atm I DO believe the seemingly growing backlash since season 5 is pretty much entirely because people are facing the harsh reality that they weren't actually good. The game just babied them by being horribly built.

[Soldier_of_Dawn]

I don't really believe the game inherently became more "spammable" intentionally. I think the availability of better offensive moves has increased. And people's lack of skill sets are showing because of this. Like Warden's bash was pretty much always spammable and difficult to handle for low to average players. Same with warlord's headbutt. and pk's zone/lights. There was just less kits involved and less viable moves involved.

While I'm not saying all things are perfectly balanced atm I DO believe the seemingly growing backlash since season 5 is pretty much entirely because people are facing the harsh reality that they weren't actually good. The game just babied them by being horribly built.

I don't think it's an issue of lack of skill or fragile egos, which is becoming common rhetoric. Most of us can handle losing. Despite certain mechanics like unreactable lights, lights doing 17+dmg, safe bashes, hyper-armour on start-up, and heavies doing 45-50dmg addressing the staring contest, they also reduce the skill ceiling and makes the game more frustrating than fun. People want the game to go back in a direction similar to how it started out where you only had to worry about mind games, reading, and tricking your opponent as that encouraged skill. I lost most of the time during those days but I had fun getting beat by the better players and wanted to prove myself to them with endless rematch requests. The current state of For Honor is too reaction-based. I'm not saying things need to be slowed down but the low-risk offense needs to be less rewarding and more focus should be put on improving mix-ups and stamina to mention a few. If we're bad at the game, why would we want to increase the skill ceiling?

[Siegfried-Z]

Light spam is a thing on PC as well. Not everyone has great reactions and I've fought players that can parry 500ms lights with ease and those that can't even block them consistently. The in-game chat does have complaints about light spam too and not all of the complainers are bad. Yes, the spam meta is easier to deal with on PC but many of us find it annoying too.

Well in my experience on PC (18 reps) lights spam is the best way to get yourself killed. I've met lots of players able to parry even 400ms lights .. i did it myself .. not even talking about 500ms one which were really free parry/deflect on reaction.

Those lights can be used on PC if used smartly and delayed of course. But the good old buffered triple lights chain from Roch for exemple is a free kill.

[Knight_Raime]

I don't think it's an issue of lack of skill or fragile egos, which is becoming common rhetoric. Most of us can handle losing. Despite certain mechanics like unreactable lights, lights doing 17+dmg, safe bashes, hyper-armour on start-up, and heavies doing 45-50dmg addressing the staring contest, they also reduce the skill ceiling and makes the game more frustrating than fun. People want the game to go back in a direction similar to how it started out where you only had to worry about mind games, reading, and tricking your opponent as that encouraged skill. I lost most of the time during those days but I had fun getting beat by the better players and wanted to prove myself to them with endless rematch requests. The current state of For Honor is too reaction-based. I'm not saying things need to be slowed down but the low-risk offense needs to be less rewarding and more focus should be put on improving mix-ups and stamina to mention a few. If we're bad at the game, why would we want to increase the skill ceiling?

I'm sorry but your understanding of the game is flawed if you believe a bit of what you're saying.
For honor was 100% reaction based in the beginning. It still is very reaction based these days. We just have mix ups on top of that that force you to read specifically because you cannot react to them.

I will reword my OG statement to make it sound less offensive.
For honor attracted many kinds of players initially. Because it came off looking like a moba, rpg hybrid of a game with gear and things like minions. While it was indeed a fighter it didn't look like a standard one. Many players like myself came over from playing the Souls series. Specifically because it looked vaguely like a souls fighter.

However, the game had always wanted to be a competitive fighter according to the developers. What's happened over the course of the game's life span is it leaning far more in that direction. And because many MANY players here have little to no actual experience with fighting games they're struggling to not only understand why things are being changed the way they are but are also ill equipped to deal with it.

I believe you're misusing terms here. The common complaints in this thread and else where would be an indication of a lower skill floor. Not skill ceiling. In order to talk about the ceiling and the skill gap you'd have to prove that said hero(S) don't drastically change with mastery of said kit. Of which I will already meet you on that point. Most heros do not have much of a gap or ceiling. Part of this is due to kit design philosophies with the devs. But the other major part is the games own base mechanics. there is very little depth to them.

For the most part For Honor is not a mechanical game. The "skill" to summarize is mainly with meta game thinking via good game sense. This is a mental thing and not an input thing. Which most people do not have as indication on how typical dominion games play out versus how they play in competitive skrims/tournaments. But i'm rambling. I'm not sure what offense in the game you think is low risk and high reward. the only hero I can think of that even remotely fits that bill is hitokiri.

[Temdee.]

This lines up with a lot of the higher health pool/lower stamina costs feedback that I've been seeing and relaying to the team.

I don't think it's that simple. If you just improve the health pool and stamina costs, but keep the ratio of damage between guaranteed lights from bashes or unreactable lights and heavies, it'll just be a longer battle mostly consisting of those attacks. I think bashes should take MORE stamina, frankly.

My personal thoughts are that a light should either be used to open a combo chain or to disrupt the timing of your opponent, and not as a tool to effectively do upwards of half the damage as a high risk heavy attack.

I also think stuns are a huge problem in this game. They aren't fun to play against in any way. Who enjoys being stunned, especially off a 400ms input?