1. #1
    na85's Avatar Senior Member
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    Can you get away from spits by doing the "spiral climb"?

    I just tried it online now and the spit ate me for breakfast.

    We started with roughly equal energy states. I might have even had a little more.

    I was in a G6A/S he was in I dunno what. Whatever spits are common in 1944.
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  2. #2
    If you climb with a Spit on your six it surely would eat you. The trick is to use VERTICAL rolling scissors where the spit is weak because it slows down every time it rolls and turns.

    Spiral dives work though because the 109 can handle the dive more than the Spit plus on turns you have the delayed g-forces due to the slats.
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  3. #3
    ImMoreBetter's Avatar Senior Member
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    In my experience, spiral climbs are a very difficult move to pull off at the right time. There are only a few (and very specific) times in which you have a chance to pull a spiral.

    When you do, it is brilliant.

    Unfortunately, I don't see those chances often enough.
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  4. #4
    na85's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by X32Wright:
    If you climb with a Spit on your six it surely would eat you. The trick is to use VERTICAL rolling scissors where the spit is weak because it slows down every time it rolls and turns.

    Spiral down works though because the 109 can handle the dive more than the Spit.
    Got any tracks?
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  5. #5
    Try a spiral climb in a mig-3 against a 109F2/4. Then you will see how useful the spiral climb can be.

    Be sure to maintain your best climb speed in any spiral climb. Don't get too slow.
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  6. #6
    DKoor's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by na85:
    Can you get away from spits by doing the "spiral climb"?

    I just tried it online now and the spit ate me for breakfast.

    We started with roughly equal energy states. I might have even had a little more.

    I was in a G6A/S he was in I dunno what. Whatever spits are common in 1944.
    No you wont get away from the Spitfire. Spitfire has somewhat inferior climb rate however it isn't considerably lower for you to have an escape window by doing this tactic.

    The only real tactic vs Spitfire that will work every time is just outrun him. Up to 7000m you should have considerable speed advantage over Spitfires. You will be able to outrun it if you spot the Spitfire in time.
    Never fight them on equal terms because if you win believe me it isn't because you were a good pilot (you must be that if you are to fight them) but because he made a stupid mistake.
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  7. #7
    DKoor's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by na85:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by X32Wright:
    If you climb with a Spit on your six it surely would eat you. The trick is to use VERTICAL rolling scissors where the spit is weak because it slows down every time it rolls and turns.

    Spiral down works though because the 109 can handle the dive more than the Spit.
    Got any tracks? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I think Wright describes a situation where a Spitfire is forced to extensively use its ailerons which isn't exactly a strong point of that plane (in comparison to 109 especially 190)... in a sense that Spitfire will probably bleed more speed than 109 by rolling. Plus Spit doesn't exactly behave great on very low speed.
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  8. #8
    Originally posted by na85:
    Can you get away from spits by doing the "spiral climb"?

    I just tried it online now and the spit ate me for breakfast.

    We started with roughly equal energy states. I might have even had a little more.

    I was in a G6A/S he was in I dunno what. Whatever spits are common in 1944.
    I don't believe Il-2 fm's really shows how the 109 has a superior acceleration and climb rate to a spit. I know with the 109 e and the Spit 1a, the spit couldn't climb at the extremely steep angle the 109 e could. Not whatsoever.

    This really bothers me.

    With BOB/WOV fm I can properly disengage from a spit at low co-energy states, speed ahead of the spit for a bit, start a shallow climb for a bit more and then steepen this climb to the 109's max climb rate and leave these spits far below me in the dust.

    Il-2 seems to take away the 109's chief advantage.

    Observe this picture. The spit is weezing away here and will so drop to a level flight trying to match the climb of the 109e. In BOB/WOV one can properly climb high above the spit and come down and eat him for a light snack.



    BOB/SOW better have this accurately modeled or I am going to pitch one dozy of a fit!!

    Willie M. put the biggest motor on the lightest airframe for superior climb and dive but this doesn't seem to be accurately modeled in Il-2. Hopefully SOW will be better.
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  9. #9
    na85's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by DKoor:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by X32Wright:
    If you climb with a Spit on your six it surely would eat you. The trick is to use VERTICAL rolling scissors where the spit is weak because it slows down every time it rolls and turns.

    Spiral down works though because the 109 can handle the dive more than the Spit.
    Got any tracks? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I think Wright describes a situation where a Spitfire is forced to extensively use its ailerons which isn't exactly a strong point of that plane (in comparison to 109 especially 190)... in a sense that Spitfire will probably bleed more speed than 109 by rolling. Plus Spit doesn't exactly behave great on very low speed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I think that's what Wright is describing as well

    But... vertical rolling scissors seems difficult for me to picture in my head. Any tracks that show it?
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  10. #10
    Originally posted by stalkervision:
    I don't believe Il-2 fm's really shows how the 109 has a superior acceleration and climb rate to a spit. I know with the 109 e and the Spit 1a, the spit couldn't climb at the extremely steep angle the 109 e could. Not whatsoever.

    This really bothers me.

    With BOB/WOV fm I can properly disengage from a spit at low co-energy states, speed ahead of the spit for a bit, start a shallow climb for a bit more and then steepen this climb to the 109's max climb rate and leave these spits far below me in the dust.

    Il-2 seems to take away the 109's chief advantage.

    Observe this picture. The spit is weezing away here and will so drop to a level flight trying to match the climb of the 109e. In BOB/WOV one can properly climb high above the spit and come down and eat him for a light snack.


    BOB/SOW better have this accurately modeled or I am going to pitch one dozy of a fit!!

    Willie M. put the biggest motor on the lightest airframe for superior climb and dive but this doesn't seem to be accurately modeled in Il-2. Hopefully SOW will be better.
    I've done exactly what you picture in IL2. Maybe not historically correct, but if you have say a 500m lead on someone at ~the same speeds, going into a 150-160kmh climb is actually a great way to get away from them. I've yet to see anything OTHER than a -109 that was able to follow me. Sure, they can outclimb me if they stay at their best speed, but that involves them flying *under* the 109 at that point, and then it's just a simple matter of stick forward + 20mm to the cockpit to get the kill.
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