1. #71
    SofaJockey's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Frankie_Drums Go to original post
    5. The way to end this practice is to vote with your wallet..
    Vote with your wallet then.

    I think it's pretty clear that most people are fairly relaxed about cosmetic microtransactions, so long as they are included at a level that Ubisoft has generally implemented in recent years.
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  2. #72
    Originally Posted by Frankie_Drums Go to original post
    Fine, fine, you play graphics that are blurry and squint during gameplay and don't care if everything is 8-bit and play games in black and white and don't mind if the frame rate is 20 FPS and are OK with your protagonist being a nondescript blob. Awesome. Pac-Man can't wait to have you back. You're an anachronism in a world of sell-outs. Yay.

    This will be great news for console manufacturers since they can dial back the specs of the next generation. Why bother making all these advancements with texturing and lighting and rendering and 4K 60FPS nonsense when you've decreed that graphics don't matter? All they need to do is repackage the NES and sell it to us with modern titles. Graphics don't matter! You've saved the industry. Thanks for your service.



    What are you even getting at here? Why does this conversation keep veering off course into inconsequential minutiae every time I make a general statement? It's like no one can admit the basics so they try to make a point about some tangential non-issue.

    1. All skins and game modes used to be included in a full retail price game.
    2. Ubisoft is still charging you full retail price for the game but is now locking the content, which used to be free, behind a paywall.
    3. This means you're paying the same price but getting less for your money, i.e., your purchase has been devalued.
    4. As a consumer, you do not benefit from this in any way, and the practice needs to end NOW before your future purchases are devalued by additional paywalls.
    5. The way to end this practice is to vote with your wallet.

    That's it. That's the crux of my argument. It doesn't matter if you like gameplay over graphics, or if they're pay-to-win, or if you only buy them when they're on sale. And if anyone disagrees with steps 1-5 I'm happy to listen to objective reasons why.
    I actually enjoy playing Pacman. It's one of my all time favorites. Honestly,, screw modern gaming. Give me Galaga, Asteriods, Centipede, Pacman, Missile Command, Dig Dug, etc anyday.

    Moving on...

    I was just getting at that while others may say they prefer gameplay over graphics, I actually meant it. Nothing more. The conversations keep veering off because we've basically exhausted this topic. We've each said our peace on the matter, and expressed differing opinions that some of us can at least agree on. We can't come to a complete consensus yet on one specific opinion but we can come to mutual understandings or "meet each other halfway" it seems.

    1-4 I agree with but do you really think we can stop it at this point? Let's face it, if not paywalls they'll come up with another mechanic on how to implement this. Most likely the next phase is going to be subscriptions that allow you to even download the purchased content. Without being a part of the subscription platform, you wouldn't even be able to see the game digitally. While many don't like the idea of DLC or MTXs, the bigger picture here is how much farther can these companies push the system? It's just getting worse IMO but I don't have the money nor the influence to make anything change. Sure I can vote with my wallet but it's not going to change much at all. We just say that to cope with the fact our video game industry and way of life is ultimately F!@#ED!!!
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  3. #73
    Originally Posted by LegendOfGta Go to original post
    1-4 I agree with but do you really think we can stop it at this point? Let's face it, if not paywalls they'll come up with another mechanic on how to implement this. Most likely the next phase is going to be subscriptions that allow you to even download the purchased content. Without being a part of the subscription platform, you wouldn't even be able to see the game digitally. While many don't like the idea of DLC or MTXs, the bigger picture here is how much farther can these companies push the system? It's just getting worse IMO but I don't have the money nor the influence to make anything change. Sure I can vote with my wallet but it's not going to change much at all. We just say that to cope with the fact our video game industry and way of life is ultimately F!@#ED!!!
    I am not sure if a subscription model is worse then paying per game. For a lot of people services like Spotify are better then paying for each new album that you want to buy. In the past you had the main album, then you had from all the hits on that album 12" versions and before you knew it you payed 60 - 80 dollar for all the songs of that single album. Now you have every song from every album for 10 dollar per month. Where can I sign for 10 dollar per month for every game ever released?
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  4. #74

    Will we be able to have our own character creation for the begining of the game?

    Yeah so one of the reasons why I wanted to play this is because a lot of my friends said the customization is awesome and the gameplay was great, but will you be adding in character in which we can make so we don't have people getting pissed over this? I would say if you guys at least allow us to make characters for multiplayer then in my books that would be fine.
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  5. #75
    Originally Posted by SofaJockey Go to original post
    most people are fairly relaxed about cosmetic microtransactions
    You have no data to back that up aside from anecdotes on the official forums which are (surprise?) populated with people who like Ubisoft products. Change "most" with "some" and you might have a leg to stand on.

    I just voted with my wallet by not buying GR: Breakpoint. I'll do it again here and with Gods & Monsters if need be, and if I have to abandon Ubisoft entirely, so be it.

    Just so we're clear: your side of the issue is populated entirely by people who are sycophants, uninformed, or indifferent about their purchasing power. You claim to be in the third group, but no one group is better than the others, they're all self-defeating and illogical.

    Originally Posted by LegendOfGta Go to original post
    I actually enjoy playing Pacman. It's one of my all time favorites. Honestly,, screw modern gaming. Give me Galaga, Asteriods, Centipede, Pacman, Missile Command, Dig Dug, etc anyday.
    If those games held your attention you wouldn't be interested in Watch Dogs: Legion or any other modern game.

    Originally Posted by LegendOfGta Go to original post
    do you really think we can stop it at this point? Sure I can vote with my wallet but it's not going to change much at all. We just say that to cope with the fact our video game industry and way of life is ultimately F!@#ED!!!
    Yes, we can stop it. As proof that we can stop it, I'll repeat what I said earlier:

    Konami only offered one save slot with Metal Gear Survive--if you wanted to buy 3 more save slots it cost $10. Metro: Last Light and Zelda: Breath of the Wild on shipped their games with one difficulty and Hard mode was bundled as part of paid DLC. EA tried implementing an online pass so they could gate off access for used games and Xbox One was originally going to charge you FULL PRICE to borrow a friend's game if you wanted to play it on your own Gamertag.

    We stopped every one of those practices by being vocal and voting with our wallet. We were so vocal with GR: Breakpoint that Ubisoft delayed all of their spring titles and is issuing a questionnaire tomorrow to gauge our reactions on upcoming GR: B changes. If fans tell them, on the survey, that they don't want their purchases devalued and that they don't want content which used to be included in their purchase gated behind paywalls, they'll listen.

    It's very easy to take action against a company when you remember that we hold all the power in the producer-supplier relationship. We can find alternatives to their product but if they lose us they're f*cked.
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  6. #76
    Originally Posted by Frankie_Drums Go to original post
    If those games held your attention you wouldn't be interested in Watch Dogs: Legion or any other modern game.
    ...

    I'm a gamer. I'm allowed to explore whatever gaming platforms I'd like, but it's clear that the era in which I listed those games was the "better" era since we didn't have to put up with all this crap to begin with. I hope you're not confused because I actually am agreeing with you. To see how gaming has transformed from that era to now is disgusting. The fact that we have to pay additional money to get things within the game that should already be available to us is just greed, plain and simple. No matter how you want to spin it, greed runs the world, and the game developers run the gaming industry. They make the games we so desperately want to play, so they know they can get us hooked on the MTXs, especially if they make them so small that in our eyes is an insignificant loss.


    Originally Posted by Frankie_Drums Go to original post
    Yes, we can stop it. As proof that we can stop it, I'll repeat what I said earlier:

    Konami only offered one save slot with Metal Gear Survive--if you wanted to buy 3 more save slots it cost $10. Metro: Last Light and Zelda: Breath of the Wild on shipped their games with one difficulty and Hard mode was bundled as part of paid DLC. EA tried implementing an online pass so they could gate off access for used games and Xbox One was originally going to charge you FULL PRICE to borrow a friend's game if you wanted to play it on your own Gamertag.

    We stopped every one of those practices by being vocal and voting with our wallet. We were so vocal with GR: Breakpoint that Ubisoft delayed all of their spring titles and is issuing a questionnaire tomorrow to gauge our reactions on upcoming GR: B changes. If fans tell them, on the survey, that they don't want their purchases devalued and that they don't want content which used to be included in their purchase gated behind paywalls, they'll listen.

    It's very easy to take action against a company when you remember that we hold all the power in the producer-supplier relationship. We can find alternatives to their product but if they lose us they're f*cked.
    Never played any of those games. I just know the introduction and implementation of lootboxes was as close as I got to typing EA a very angry, hateful email. My reasoning behind why we don't really have any control over this situation could get extremely political, and I don't think anyone wants to read that. Simply put, we're not in control. We have an illusion of control. The publishers run the franchises while they make the devs slave away night and day to produce the games we so desperately want to play. Depending on the developer's greed, if it's high then we'll continue to see MTXs in bigger and maybe even more intrusive forms (*cough* SURPRISE MECHANICS *cough*). Even if we try to silence these practices by voting with our wallets, they'll still try to find ways around it. Look at EA's surprise mechanics argument. Even though it fell flat, they almost succeeded with their BS excuses, so what makes you think one failure is going to stop them? No! They'll just keep hammering at it until they lose their fanbase completely or develop some other genius way of pulling us in.

    Look at E-ciagarettes. We started with regular cigarettes, which everyone said was great, fun and harmless. Then the truth came out and activists everywhere are trying to ban them because they aren't healthy and cause cancer. What did the tobacco company do? Target ads at kids and teems. When that failed what did they do? Create "filtered" cigarettes claiming they were better. When that failed? E-ciagarettes. Well, now that excuse is failing as well, and after trying once again to target kids and teens, E-caigarettes altogether are falling under extreme scrutiny by the public, but THAT WON'T STOP THEM! Wait until you see what they come up with next!

    In the same way, we can compre cigarettes and E-cigarettes to MTX use in video games. Companies aren't going to stop using them, and even if the public scrutinizes them and downright gets them banned, they'll just find some other way to make it happen because these companies are mostly run by greed because the WORLD RUNS ON GREED! You can't beat it and you won't stop it no matter how hard you try! This is the future of gaming, which is, once again, why we are all F@#$ed!
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  7. #77
    SofaJockey's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Frankie_Drums Go to original post
    I just voted with my wallet by not buying GR: Breakpoint. I'll do it again here and with Gods & Monsters if need be, and if I have to abandon Ubisoft entirely, so be it.
    Then you should abandon it because they won't be removed. Perhaps start with its forum.

    I bought and enjoy Breakpoint. I've felt no urge to buy any of the missable cosmetic items in Breakpoint, benignly tucked away in a separate menu. The MTXs in that game are entirely fine. I'm not missing out enjoying a good game to satisfy some fake internet outrage.

    I have my pre-order in for Legion.
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  8. #78
    Originally Posted by SofaJockey Go to original post
    Then you should abandon it because they won't be removed. Perhaps start with its forum.

    I bought and enjoy Breakpoint. I've felt no urge to buy any of the missable cosmetic items in Breakpoint, benignly tucked away in a separate menu. The MTXs in that game are entirely fine. I'm not missing out enjoying a good game to satisfy some fake internet outrage.

    I have my pre-order in for Legion.
    Googled you to see if you were a plant. Found you spouting this nonsense on Reddit as well. It seems like "fake internet outrage" is your default response when you're called out for being a hypocrite. Your opinion has no value.

    Originally Posted by LegendOfGta Go to original post
    ...
    Simply put, we're not in control. We have an illusion of control.
    You couldn't be more wrong. Are there franchises you once played but at some time stopped buying? That's because you have control. Producers have NO control because we can always find alternatives to their products.
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  9. #79
    SofaJockey's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Frankie_Drums Go to original post
    Your opinion has no value.
    I find your arguments equally valueless, but hey, it's a discussion forum, so at least we're having an exchange of perspectives.

    We'll see what happens with Legion in 2020, as its actual success or otherwise will be what matters, not either of our opinions.
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  10. #80
    UBI-Zuzu's Avatar Community Manager
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    Guys, please stay on the topic of discussion. Personal attacks are not cool.
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