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  1. #1
    SixKeys's Avatar Senior Member
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    Mentors Guild Community Discussion - Sailing

    Hi all,

    This week's discussion is about sailing. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!


    MAKING SURE THE FANS ARE HEARD

    As part of a set of new Community Initiatives, we'd like to give opportunities to the community to give more direct feedback, and will now host weekly discussion on specific topics that relate the Assassin's Creed Franchise. These community discussions will take place on the AC subreddit, the Official Ubisoft Forums, and on the Mentors Guild Twitter. These discussions will be open for 1 week. The threads and responses will be shared directly with the Assassin's Creed Community Development team, who will then pass that info on to concerned parties within Ubisoft itself.

    While the Mentors get opportunities to speak directly with the creators of Assassin’s Creed and frequently communicate with the Community Development Team, this is not the case for every fan. We want to change that. We want fans to have their voices heard directly, in the same ways the Mentors do. These activities are a step towards meeting this goal. If you want Ubisoft to see what you have to say, this is the place to do it.


    THIS WEEK'S TOPIC

    Topic:
    Sailing

    Info: The ability to sail and control an entire ship was implemented in the series with Assassin's Creed 3, but didn't become a integral part of the game until Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag, and again with Assassin's Creed: Rogue. Sailing was left out of the next two AC titles, but made a small return in Assassin's Creed Origins, and was a massive part of Assassin's Creed: Odyssey.


    QUESTIONS TO CONSIDER:

    -Do you enjoy sailing in these games? Why or why not?

    -Which game has the best version of sailing gameplay in your opinion?


    -Do you think sailing should be implemented in AC games whenever the setting permits it?


    -Which setting would you like to see in a future AC game that would involve sailing?


    -Is sailing an integral part of the Assassin's Creed series?


    -If you could change anything about the sailing experience, what would it be?


    -If sailing is part of future AC games, how much of the game should be based in it? (example: Black Flag's gameplay is about 40% sailing)



    As always, please feel free to add any thoughts you might have that are not covered by these example questions!


    REMEMBER:

    While these discussions are meant to allow for honest and raw feedback directly from the community, the best way to ensure your voice is heard is to be constructive - be critical of the process, not the people. Be specific with your criticisms and suggest tangible solutions and improvements.
    We hope to see active participation and that this will be a successful way of getting the fans' voices truly heard.
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  2. #2
    ninja4hire10's Avatar Member
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    Do you enjoy sailing in these games? Why or why not?

    Absolutely. Another way to explore and to lose myself in the world. Love it.

    -Which game has the best version of sailing gameplay in your opinion?

    Black Flag/Rogue. Although I did enjoy what little sailing there was in Origins. Oddly enough I didn't do much naval stuff in Odyssey. Have no explanation as to why.


    -Do you think sailing should be implemented in AC games whenever the setting permits it?

    Yes infinity.


    -Which setting would you like to see in a future AC game that would involve sailing?

    That I don't have a legit answer for, other than saying "if the shoe fits, wear it." If it makes sense to the setting and the character, please include it.


    -Is sailing an integral part of the Assassin's Creed series?

    Integral to the series? Nah, not really. Integral to the gameplay, AKA my overall enjoyment of the game? Yep.


    -If you could change anything about the sailing experience, what would it be?

    Nothing other than more realism.


    -If sailing is part of future AC games, how much of the game should be based in it? (example: Black Flag's gameplay is about 40% sailing)


    BF and Rogue's amount struck a perfect balance. In both games I found myself wandering aimlessly on the sea and would more times than not forget what was going on in the main story.
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  3. #3
    -Do you enjoy sailing in these games? Why or why not?
    Only in Odyssey. Black Flag was forced and honestly I played Black Flag after Origins, so it was a bit dated for my taste. Origins ship battles I dreaded. It was not fun at all.

    -Which game has the best version of sailing gameplay in your opinion?
    Odyssey. Once I had my ship upgraded, it became an ATM transaction on water.

    -Do you think sailing should be implemented in AC games whenever the setting permits it?
    Yes. The newest game play dynamic worked very well and never became as boring as the past.


    -Which setting would you like to see in a future AC game that would involve sailing?

    IDK... do we really get a choice?

    -Is sailing an integral part of the Assassin's Creed series?
    No. It feels forced at best, however, in Odyssey it is integral given the nature of the Iliad.

    -If you could change anything about the sailing experience, what would it be?
    Ship size and turning. Let us purchase a boat type (smaller faster or larger slower) and not just be given any old boat.

    -If sailing is part of future AC games, how much of the game should be based in it? (example: Black Flag's gameplay is about 40% sailing)
    It should be a vehicle like a horse with only OPTIONAL quests. Unless the name of the game is AC: Around the World in 80 days.
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  4. #4
    JKAC2013's Avatar Senior Member
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    -Do you enjoy sailing in these games? Why or why not?

    I would say both. I think its a good variety and fun sometimes to explore the world with an ship. What I don't like about it when it was forced too much and overused. That was sometimes in Black Flag the case.

    -Which game has the best version of sailing gameplay in your opinion?

    Rogue. It was a good evolution of Black Flags sailing system and I liked it that they made the morrigan faster as the jackdaw. As much as I like the Black Flags world design Rogue made the sailing better because the doesn't force you to use it so often as in Black Flag the only thing I missed in Rogue was the Underwater Locations.

    -Do you think sailing should be implemented in AC games whenever the setting permits it?
    If it is a good addition to the gameplay and setting I would say yes but it shouldn't be in every setting that is something near the sea. It give a lot of settings that offer more in their landscape and world then sailing.

    -Which setting would you like to see in a future AC game that would involve sailing?
    I think Vikings would be nice because the landscape and settings would fit it to implant sailing and could give us again Nice Forts battles, Sea Hunts etc. like Black Flag and Rogue did.


    -Is sailing an integral part of the Assassin's Creed series?

    No. Its a nice addition but not an integral part. Assassins Creed is about Stealth, Parkour and Combat.


    -If you could change anything about the sailing experience, what would it be?

    Actual I would bring back a lot of things that Black Flag and Rogue introduced, Odysseys sailing was nice but beside the fights you have not much to do with your ship. I would go back with the ship upgrade costs because at the last levels the are an endless grind and doesn't add much to the experience. One thing I would at to sailing would be to give players the choice between and Large battle ship and an fast litte seal boat like the one in Odysseys and Origins. I enjoyed sealing with that little things sometimes much more because the doesn't let you feel so large and heavy the let you feel like more light and free. I think sailing with little boats could add a lot of different and new gameplay methods to, like races, stealth who you must hide with that little ship or different ship battles and more...

    -If sailing is part of future AC games, how much of the game should be based in it? (example: Black Flag's gameplay is about 40% sailing)

    Hard to say definitly not that much as in Black Flag. Its ok when it is sometimes a part of the main game and story but most of it should be optional. I would made it like Rouge where we have a good mix between large towns, landscapes and a big sea part to explore. But dont neglect it and make more of it then just Sea Battles like in Odyssey.

    At the end I like the sealing in ac but don't forget to look at other gameplay aspects in the series to because the are important too and I think most of the players like the events on the landscape more
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  5. #5
    Olympus2018's Avatar Senior Member
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    -Do you enjoy sailing in these games? Why or why not?

    I do enjoy sailing in the Aegean Sea, the Mediterranean Sea and the North Atlantic Ocean in AC3. The feeling I get, the sounds from the waters and the ship (rattling wood) is really nice.


    -Which game has the best version of sailing gameplay in your opinion?

    Odyssey, followed by Origins and AC3. I have not played Black Flag though....




    -Do you think sailing should be implemented in AC games whenever the setting permits it?

    Yes, I love it.




    -Which setting would you like to see in a future AC game that would involve sailing?

    The North Sea, the English Channel and the Baltic Sea.




    -Is sailing an integral part of the Assassin's Creed series?

    To me, yes.




    -If you could change anything about the sailing experience, what would it be?

    I would like to see more storage space, more recruiting options for the crew and possibly bigger ships and more activities on board.




    -If sailing is part of future AC games, how much of the game should be based in it? (example: Black Flag's gameplay is about 40% sailing)

    No more than Black Flag's map.
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  6. #6
    -Do you enjoy sailing in these games? Why or why not?

    Yes. It's pretty, it's a nice change of pace, and ship-to-ship combat is fun.


    -Which game has the best version of sailing gameplay in your opinion?

    Odyssey's good, but it seems to improve every time it's done.


    -Do you think sailing should be implemented in AC games whenever the setting permits it?

    No.

    The thing with sailing is, while it's a great thing in the games, it changes history. The ships we sail in the games are very large, and they're warships. Unless a giant ship had a massive income source, such as semi-mechanised whaling in the 18th and 19th centuries, it would need to be sponsored for a ridiculous amount of money to retain, feed and pay the crew, not to mention other maintenance costs. Even members of royal families would generally travel as passengers in much smaller ships than the vast galleons we captain.

    We're not really reflecting the experience of ancestors anymore if we lose sight of how these characters would really have fitted into their world, and sailing would have radically altered the way some past games played. It was nice that we could turn up at an agent's kiosk and buy passage on a vessel to different cities, and the travel we saw was the natural choice, a horse or maybe a horse and cart.If we could have taken to the high seas with a fearsome man o' war whenever we liked, they would have been very different experiences.

    It's always nice to come back to sailing, but I don't miss it that much when we can't.


    -Which setting would you like to see in a future AC game that would involve sailing?

    It depends on the era, but perhaps China. Some five centuries ago the Chinese sailed ships so large, they were said to be like little towns on the water.

    The Dutch have a very interesting naval history as explorers and traders.

    Anywhere with beautiful coasts, I guess? India, perhaps.



    -Is sailing an integral part of the Assassin's Creed series?

    No, but it's a nice addition. I'm just as happy sailing a punt down rivers in Origins as I am doing the grand scale thing in Odyssey or Black Flag.


    -If you could change anything about the sailing experience, what would it be?

    I think it should be scaled back a bit. I feel too powerful on the sea, plus it feels like it breaks history to me.

    So either a smaller ship, where taking down a big ship is much harder, or a greater amount of progression to get you to that godlike point. The sailing I most enjoy is in Sunless Sea. It takes a long time until you can afford good guns and armour, and until then you're playing a different game. You think very carefully about getting into combat, and most of the time you hide and dodge threats on the sea. It's a long game too, and the longing to not get kicked around anymore really feeds your ambitions, driving you on to earn the money for those upgrades. When you get them, sailing becomes a different game because you can suddenly do things you couldn't have done 20 hours ago.

    I think the trading of historically informative cargo could be interesting: buying silks here to sell for spices there, tea to silver, and so on. If it can help to make us feel the setting, that would be a positive addition, and it can be used to force us to explore (that is, we have to go to one of these ports because it's the area where we can buy coffee).


    -If sailing is part of future AC games, how much of the game should be based in it? (example: Black Flag's gameplay is about 40% sailing)

    It depends on the setting, but I don't think sailing is so great that it should be inflated out of hand. Use it for variety if possible, to add colour.
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  7. #7
    Mushashi7's Avatar Senior Member
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    QUESTIONS TO CONSIDER:


    * Do you enjoy sailing in these games? Why or why not?

    Well, I did actually enjoy the Adrestia in this game.
    There are some nice sailor chants to enjoy, the Adrestia is a nice vessel, the drums prevents you from falling asleep.
    Bording or torpedoing other ships is fun. The sea is full of adventures.
    And, well, maybe most important of all: I was able to have my personal crew theme (Daughters of Artemis)..

    * Which game has the best version of sailing game-play in your opinion?

    Definitely Odyssey. I actually HATED the ships in the other game before Origins. Origins was also ok somehow.


    * Do you think sailing should be implemented in AC games whenever the setting permits it?

    Sure, why not. It's a nice break from all the other activities. You can actually find a little peace while at sea.


    * Which setting would you like to see in a future AC game that would involve sailing?

    The northern Europe perhaps. Rumors are already there is an AC game set in the viking period. I would look forward to this as I am danish

    * Is sailing an integral part of the Assassin's Creed series?

    If needed I think. Why not? But if Ubisoft plans to create a game with lots more time spend on sea there has to be more activities, interaction.

    * If you could change anything about the sailing experience, what would it be?

    I think I already mentioned this: More interaction with the crew.

    * If sailing is part of future AC games, how much of the game should be based in it? (example: Black Flag's game-play is about 40% sailing)

    Personally I don't think a game like 'Black Flag' would appeal to me. I'm not THAT fond of sailing. Odyssey suits me just fine as it has a good balance.


    As always, please feel free to add any thoughts you might have that are not covered by these example questions!

    I would suggest more 'life' on the ships. All crew members are dumb NPC's more or less. Create some life on the ship that makes me feel like staying on board. You know what I mean. Maybe create more dialogues and life among the crew? Some interaction would be very nice. Like when you 'hire' crew members you can actually talk to them (Roxana, Nikolaos, Myrrine etc.)

    And I think you should be able to SWIM all the way to the shore if your ship is destroyed. It would be more immersive.
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  8. #8
    cawatrooper9's Avatar AC Forum Moderator
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    -Do you enjoy sailing in these games? Why or why not?
    I enjoy it quite a lot. Black Flag is my favorite game in the series, and I've spent countless hours doing nothing more than sailing, battling enemy ships, and exploring the map.

    Navigation/exploration has always been a huge pillar in the Assassin's Creed experience, I see sailing as an extension of that, and usually a pretty fun variety of addition.
    -Which game has the best version of sailing gameplay in your opinion?
    If you're talking saiiling purely as navigation via ship, I actually prefer Odyssey's the most. The sea just feels very immersive, and knowing you could jump out and plunge to the depths at any moment is pretty neat.

    Combat-wise, I'd give it to Black Flag, though Rogue had some fun innovations.

    I wouldn't discount Origins, Syndicate's Thames, or ACIII's Haytham sections, though. Just because you're not at the helm doesn't mean you have an inferior sailing experience. Being part of the "crew" on a vessel that's not under your control is also an interesting situation to be in.

    -Do you think sailing should be implemented in AC games whenever the setting permits it?
    That's kind of an interesting predicament, right? Like, sailing would be a viable method of transportation in most games, given how Assassin's Creed has cemented its place as an open world historical series, particularly with the recent focus on recreating huge open world settings rather than singular cities. Water transport has been a pretty big factor in human history, so at this point not having it would be weird. Yet, still, I don't think the games need to always give the protagonist their own ship to sail in.

    Much as I wanted Bayek to have a ship at the time, I think Origins handled this well.



    -Which setting would you like to see in a future AC game that would involve sailing?
    East Asia would be amazing, though that's kind of Skull & Bones' territory.

    Vikings is also an obvious choice.

    I wouldn't mind something a little different, though- maybe a sailing game focused more on rivers, such as in the Amazon or the Rhine?

    Or perhaps delving into Ironclad ships or riverboats if we ever get an American Civil War setting?

    -Is sailing an integral part of the Assassin's Creed series?
    It's certainly a big part of the series' history and identity, and I think it deserves that, though I don't think it's necessary for every game. I kinda prefer for it to be special.

    -If you could change anything about the sailing experience, what would it be?
    I'd love for the sailing experience to be entirely systemic. Let us board enemy ships and take them for ourselves (physically, not adding them to an offscreen fleet).

    If our ship is destroyed, throw us into the carnage of trying to survive that experience instead of immediately desynchronizing.

    Let us manage our ships with a deeper customization- pick how many canons and what type (with the drawback of losing speed) for instance.



    -If sailing is part of future AC games, how much of the game should be based in it? (example: Black Flag's gameplay is about 40% sailing)
    I'd say make it low, but optional. For instance, if the was a sailing game set in Egypt again, let the player choose whether they'd prefer to sail the Nile or ride to their location (assuming the game was more focused on the river itself).

    For quests, I'd simply suggest to do whatever makes sense, and feels fleshed out and not gimmicky.
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  9. #9
    ElderDarklion's Avatar Senior Member
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    -Do you enjoy sailing in these games? Why or why not?


    Yes, Sailing always gives an extra view and beauty for AC Games. Sometimes that views are soo relaxing and sometimes you say only 'Woow'.

    -Which game has the best version of sailing gameplay in your opinion?

    Not play many games about sailing but AC Black Flag was really impressive for me. Background musics, canon shoot varieties, hunting big or dangerous see animals and also rogue waves, hurricanes with many tornados.

    Spoiler:  Show
    That is one good example.

    -Do you think sailing should be implemented in AC games whenever the setting permits it?

    Of course. If The country or city(cities) will have sea, sailing should be implemented in ACGames.

    -Which setting would you like to see in a future AC game that would involve sailing?

    Baltic Sea with North Sea and Sea of Japan with Pacific Sea.

    -Is sailing an integral part of the Assassin's Creed series?

    No, not an integral part but if our map has got sea(s) that should become a necessary.

    -If you could change anything about the sailing experience, what would it be?

    Our ship will take damages with hurricanes, tornados and rogue waves again also we will gain money again with fishing. It will be a very good combination with Black Flag's varieties about sailing and Odyssey's great sea effects and wievs.

    -If sailing is part of future AC games, how much of the game should be based in it? (example: Black Flag's gameplay is about 40% sailing)

    An AC's Gameplay will be about 33% sailing, should be enough for me.

    Add: I think we will be ready for Vikings at next AC game. This discussion reminds me the rumors.
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  10. #10
    Anykeyer's Avatar Senior Member
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    Didnt we have a similar set of questions before?

    -Do you enjoy sailing in these games? Why or why not?
    Generally yes. But I greatly dislike Odysseys random naval quests that send you to kill some sharks or pirates. To the point when I started killing quest givers to fail and get another quest if I got this as daily ori.

    -Which game has the best version of sailing gameplay in your opinion?
    Best mechanics - easily AC3 for me. Later games ships lost their sense of weight, lost or changed ammo types in ways I dont like.
    But Rogue had the best naval integration into open world. AC4 had too many loading screens, in Rogue you could seamlessly disembark almost everywhere, especially in rivers valley. Odyssey removed loading screen completely (except fast travel and travellng to DLC realms) but its naval isnt on the same level as Rogue. Ofc time period has its own constaints, but Odysseys sea us also less lively. Pirates never attack anyone except player, storms are very weak and barely affect gameplay, and in general nothing happens at sea.

    -Do you think sailing should be implemented in AC games whenever the setting permits it?
    Yes, but I wouldnt mind if naval isnt implemented or isnt integrated into open world (like in AC3 an Origins)

    -Which setting would you like to see in a future AC game that would involve sailing?
    Vikings and Japan (and the rest of eastern Asia) are first to come to mind.

    -Is sailing an integral part of the Assassin's Creed series?
    No

    -If you could change anything about the sailing experience, what would it be?
    Make it a little more realistic. Ships should not move at 200+ kmh, at least half their speed. Make weather and wind direction more impactfull. Non-player ships should be more active. At the very least pirates should attack civilians and civilians should do fishing and other things, not just aimlessly sail around.

    -If sailing is part of future AC games, how much of the game should be based in it? (example: Black Flag's gameplay is about 40% sailing)
    15-20% is enough.
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