Deflect VS Hyper Armor | Forums

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I agree with Vakris (despite maining an assassin). All assasssins should have two or more deflect options, one that strikes quickly and is always guaranteed but might trade, and one that hits hard and beats hyperarmor, but can be punished.

- Orochi is a good example, but his heavy actually does not defeat hyperarmor, he trades back, and while that is 50 damage, I have seen them trade with two berserker heavies, which is not favourable. That attack should punch through hyperarmor if the opponent is not cancelling and dodging it.

- Valkyrie, Berserker and Shinobi deflects must be standardized with this change, since theirs beat everything even now (Valkyrie and Shinobi also deal a lot more damage than others with it). They should all get two options, one that deals the standard 30ish damage and can be hyperarmored through, and a strong and slow one that can't be. If others don't get something as safe as theirs, they should lose theirs too.

[Velentix]

I can't speak to the other deflects but valks doesn't beat everything. But it does beat most things. Specifically multi hit zones like zerks or shamans hit her out of it. As far as HA being beaten by deflects that would depend on having standardized HA and deflects, of which we have neither. Can't balance a system if you have no coherent system to begin with.

Personally I like the idea of two different deflects, one like the roach's where you get to trade because you also have HA, and then you could have a different one that can be unique to the character. The "heavy" deflect would also have to be feintable like roach's imo. They would need to fix the deflect timings though. The side deflects specifically.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Yeah, the window is still small. I would also expand the time you have to use your deflect punish a bit.

[Alustar.exe]

The main problem goes beyond hyper armour, the main problem is fast chained combo still flowing even though you have timed a successful response properly. In 4s this means that assassins attempting deflect in any fight outside of 1v1 will get smacked it if deflects because follow up strikes coming externally will still be allowed to continue. Where as parry imbalances and halts ALL attacks within the parry timing. Deflect will never become a viable tool unless you can find a way to address the risk/reward of it in 1vX. After all of the defensive beta changes and tweaks to most of the roster, assassins have suffered the most in regards to how they function in group matches, something needs to be done to rely separate them from the rest so they are more than just squishy, less defensible vanguard heroes with reactive guard.

[Amerikanovich]

Because it means that hyperarmor characters are immune to deflects?
Or am I not understanding something here?
HA is something that activates every attack that has it, it's not something like a feint that only happens once in a while.

[AlphawolfyUP]

While reflex guard still exists deflect should beat HA. Assassins really struggle right now and deflect is a massive part of their kit, HA already out-trades any dodge attack, deflect is ment to be for dodge what a parry is for blocks, a risk requiring perfect timing for a high reward. The risk for parrying is it could be a feint, the risk for trying to deflect is the opponent mixing up their hits with varying timings or feinting into guard break. If reflex guard is finally scrapped then I could see a reason for deflect to be weaker, but right now its vital to make assassins viable.

[EvoX.]

I like the idea of deflects having two different options. It's a much better alternative to them outright ignoring hyperarmor. Deflects are usually equal to your parry max punish, sometimes even higher - they should be riskier, though not outright useless against HA.

There is one deflect that needs its interaction with HA changed specifically, however, and that's Gladiator's Skewer.

[Knight_Raime]

While reflex guard still exists deflect should beat HA. Assassins really struggle right now and deflect is a massive part of their kit, HA already out-trades any dodge attack, deflect is ment to be for dodge what a parry is for blocks, a risk requiring perfect timing for a high reward. The risk for parrying is it could be a feint, the risk for trying to deflect is the opponent mixing up their hits with varying timings or feinting into guard break. If reflex guard is finally scrapped then I could see a reason for deflect to be weaker, but right now its vital to make assassins viable.

Fixing/buffing deflects will not solve the problems of reflex. So that is not solid logic.