Anyone else feels uneasy by dev making recovery shorter by a lot | Forums

[DeamonXII]

Feels like people are gonna spam more easily and this will make everyone turtle more, not doing offensive things, sure the casts need faster recovery, but don't make it way faster for missed finisher attacks so people can counter attack(if you dodge a light finisher, you can get a guarantee light in) and it will be a meta where attack and defense is balanced not reviving turtle meta, and i wonder if ubi do this so everyone gonna be offensive by light spamming(poor new players gonna get stomped and t-bagged more), and why a character with 500 ms attacks got 18 damages(conqueror is kinda nice since his followup/infinite chain is 600 ms), can't you do things right and lower everyone with 500 ms light to 15 damage, 400 ms do only 10-12 damage, while 600 ms lights got 18-20 damage(and fix the animation too especially shaolin since he barely move when he do a light).

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I don't worry at all. This should have been a thing for a while now. Turtle meta is enforced by low stamina (Jormungandr), high risk on a wrong move (Lawbringer, Shinobi, Aramusha), braindeadly easy access to hyperarmor (Shugoki, Hitokiri), multiple optionselects (Conqueror) and the general lack of good offensive moves. I dislike raider, and many of you dislike Black Prior, but let's be honest, they have the amount of offense everyone should have for fun games. Punishes must go down, stamina must be buffed, hyperarmor and optionselects must be nerfed, and offense must be buffed significantly to the point you can't stay in someone's hitrange for even two seconds safely. Recovery buffs are a (small) step in the new direction.

New players should get in-game help more. Picking up some mixups is easier than anticipating a 400ms light after a feint for beginners, so the offensive meta will actually help them too.

Conqueror, along with some optionselects nerf, actually needs more to use the infinite chain. That weapon is a blade killer, it should give superior chainlights imo.

[DeamonXII]

And that's also why the number of the new playerbase got nerfed real hard after they try the game free.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

What is "that"? I am pretty sure that the lack of in-game teaching methods and bad matchmaking did that. Or the lack of in-game communication, if I want to speak to someone, why do I have to constantly check my Uplay?

[DeamonXII]

Conqueror, along with some optionselects nerf, actually needs more to use the infinite chain. That weapon is a blade killer, it should give superior chainlights imo.

I don't think they'll do that since the game has lost its reality when shinobi comes out and it lost it even more with new executions and shaolin's feat

[DeamonXII]

400ms light after a feint.

and because of that console is hell and other reason for new players to hate and quit this game(especially when the one doing it know what is he doing).

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Do you know how it feels to be a new player in the current meta? I don't. Do you think that absolutely new players are able to understand how shaman's pounce works and how to counter it? Or what to do with Nuxia traps?

[UbiInsulin]

Feels like people are gonna spam more easily and this will make everyone turtle more, not doing offensive things, sure the casts need faster recovery, but don't make it way faster for missed finisher attacks so people can counter attack(if you dodge a light finisher, you can get a guarantee light in) and it will be a meta where attack and defense is balanced not reviving turtle meta, and i wonder if ubi do this so everyone gonna be offensive by light spamming(poor new players gonna get stomped and t-bagged more), and why a character with 500 ms attacks got 18 damages(conqueror is kinda nice since his followup/infinite chain is 600 ms), can't you do things right and lower everyone with 500 ms light to 15 damage, 400 ms do only 10-12 damage, while 600 ms lights got 18-20 damage(and fix the animation too especially shaolin since he barely move when he do a light).

Can we get into the specifics of what moves with shorter recoveries will lead to more spam? If you're in a finisher recovery, then your chain is obviously at an end, so I don't quite get how that leads to spam for example.

I think the idea is that short recoveries will lead to players being more comfortable using various offensive moves, instead of worrying about the consequences of trying them at all.

[Knight_Raime]

So i'm going to attempt to leave an educational post here instead of my usual ranty superiority speeches:

There are 3 different recovery values. Recovery isn't just one stat. One for dodge. One for gb/cgb. and one for guard i.e parrying/blocking. As an example, Black prior has low cgb recovery after a neutral bash which prevents you from dodging and GBing him without a read. However he has a higher guard recovery value. This is what the devs changed on his bash recovery wise and it is why you're capable of punishing his bash with dodge attacks.


1) Most of the recovery changes done were to finishers. This will not allow someone to spam out attacks and go unpunished or spam out attacks and be able to quickly retaliate against your counter. All it means is that they can actually throw finishers and not be guard broken on a reaction dodge. potentially not reaction GBed externally. We still have to see what specific recovery value they touched for each finisher. But yeah. There is in no way shape or form that buffing those finishers to those values will allow you to attack after finishers quickly. You'd need super low recovery values. we're talking 400ms or lower. Which basically no finishers in the game have.


2) It's been thrown around constantly over the past few months and I need to put my foot down. Heros getting better and/or safer offense DOES NOT encourage turtleling. Turtling is a problem in this game primarily due to the piss poor stamina system's values. the second main problem is a lack of unsuable chain offense. These two things force heros to basically have a very strong neutral presence to actually get anything done. There are isolated cases that cause some turtling. goki and hitokiri's reactionary neutral armor and charged armor, LB's parry rewards and relatively safe dodge bash, and Jorge's poor kit design. But for the most part the reason why some heros feel so bad offensively is because they don't have a viable offense. If you had one then you could easily punish someone and start your own offense. or mix someone up and go for offense.


3) Standardizing damage based upon speed values doesn't work. Look at conq for instance. His bash is semi fast and he gets a pitiful 13 damage from it. Yet someone with an equally fast bash like black prior gets 15. And then shaolin who gets 20 off of his kick despite being the same speed as both heros. It all depends on the hero's kit and the purpose of said move or mix up. You can to an extent normalize punishs/ganks and dodge attacks. But you can't do this to standard attacks.


4) Population has zero issues. I have someone who can give me population numbers on a weekly basis for all platforms both normally and during events. According to their reports the game isn't struggling population wise and hasn't really even seen a major drop in population since marching fire. The game being given out for free as often as it has been is less about trying to inflate the population and more about hooking people. The game already makes quite a profit off of steel purchases and heros so they easily make up for the money lost when giving the game out.