1. #1

    Legendary cards dominating meta

    Does Ubisoft see this as a problem?

    The higher you go in rank the more likely you are to face opponents that are stacking high level legendary cards. Most often, this is adventure+mystic with SOMM, Incan Craig, Medusa Bebe, Ninjew Kyle, WDT. These cards are usually supported by the same few cards: Pope Timmy, Sharon, randy, HHC, one or both of the epic assassins, and one of either Zen or Santa. Most of these decks are completed with a combination of heal and damage spells. This leads to nearly every game being some variation of these 15 or so cards, with one constant: the deck is built around stacking as many legendaries as possible and overwhelming your opponent with them.

    So Iím left wondering if Ubisoft is actively trying to promote meta diversity or if they are okay with legendaries dominating because it incentivizes spending?

    The funny thing is, these cards donít really need their inherent stat advantage over their epic/rare/common counterparts since their abilities generate tons of value as is. Iíve mentioned this many times in the past, but Incan Craig, for example, would be used for his war cry even if he was as frail as most other ranged cards. SOMM already actually has relatively low health pool and that makes him relatively counter-able, but when he does get his charged ability off it is absolutely devastating. Moving away from the adventure/mystic cards, this is true for other legendaries as well: DSR is useful for her war cry even when she is under leveled, for example.

    So why not equalize stat weights? I realize that early in the gameís life people were just relying on over leveled commons and rares because they were easier to level... but now that weíre much deeper into the gameís life many people have leveled up legendary cards to respectable levels and would continue to use them even if their base stats were nerfed. Legendaries should be good because their abilities are worth building a deck around, not just because their stat advantage allows one to overpower their opponent through sheer force. THAT is why stacking high level legendaries is such a foolproof strategy. Normalizing stat weights across rarities would lead to a ton of diversity in the meta. So why not do it?
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  2. #2
    Iím ashamed to admit it but this just further illustrates my point: I just lost to a level 15 NK at 7k rating. He was using SOMM, Incan Craig, Medusa Bebe with the standard adventure+mystic supporting cast.

    Aside from the part where there is no way that guy didnít spend a couple of hundred dollars to get those legendaries to max lvl 3 - it completely didnít even matter that he was NK 15 because his team of legendaries produced so much cumulative value that I only got to his NK once because I was behind the whole game.

    Also, Sharon healing the NK for full value is very, very strong especially in a world where almost nothing does full value when targeting the NK.
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  3. #3
    Regarding SoMM I think he is fine the way he is. He is very easy to counter (such low health for a legendary without a warcry, who MUST survive to produce any value) or highjack using mind control. Or simply power bind, costs almost nothing and removes all the threat.

    Not like the mystic legendaries, who are too tanky to remove fast without hard removal and with warcry or non-charge abilities... The only charging legendary in mystic is WDT and he keeps healing himself AND killing off enemies at the same time unless you are fast enough (even when the character he steals life from has like 1 HP left), making him a potential mega-tank.. That nerf he received was a joke.
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  4. #4
    I actually agree with you that SOMM isnít particularly difficult to take care of on his own, in a vacuum. But the problem is that these legendary stacking teams you end up having to use your removal on SOMM to deny the charge ability and then the opponent overwhelms you with all of the other legendaries theyíre playing with. There is just too much value. Even with SOMM getting cancelled or otherwise having resources devoted to him to remove him - heís still generating tons of value by forcing you to use those resources on him instead of the other cards you mention.

    SOMM is literally ďcharged ability wipes the board clean of enemies, or forces your opponent to pay 4+ energy to stop itĒ

    Thatís really powerful when you still have 4+ overwhelming legendary threats in your deck.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Mamey0 Go to original post
    I actually agree with you that SOMM isn’t particularly difficult to take care of on his own, in a vacuum. But the problem is that these legendary stacking teams you end up having to use your removal on SOMM to deny the charge ability and then the opponent overwhelms you with all of the other legendaries they’re playing with. There is just too much value. Even with SOMM getting cancelled or otherwise having resources devoted to him to remove him - he’s still generating tons of value by forcing you to use those resources on him instead of the other cards you mention.

    SOMM is literally “charged ability wipes the board clean of enemies, or forces your opponent to pay 4+ energy to stop it”

    That’s really powerful when you still have 4+ overwhelming legendary threats in your deck.
    Well I would rather see a cap on the number of legendaries you can use in a single deck (2 or 3?) than nerfing SoMM A legendary that is easy to deal with on his own isnt the right target.

    Adventure is the damage theme, it has very few useful warcries or special abilities. Take away the damage and nothing is left. It cant do any mind control BS / freezing / poison like SF. It doesnt have debuffs / shields / useful abilities like fantasy. Its not healing / instant removal / massive energy advantage as meta mystic. All that it has is SoMM / Incan / Randy (/ Sharon). Take them away and the theme is dead again. And Incan is already on the watchlist.

    A lot of people are hating on adventure right now but the real issue isnt adventure itself. If someone ran an adventure only deck they would get nowhere since most cards are useless compared to their counterparts in other themes. The problem is that people cherry pick the best from adventure and team it up with (usually) the best from mystic with lots of high level legendaries in the mix.

    And yes SOMM is literally “charged ability wipes the board clean of enemies, or forces your opponent to pay 4+ energy to stop it”, but many cards are forcing you to do that. Kill off pope timmy fast enough or he will resurrect an expensive legendary. Do something about Dougie or lose a phone. Get rid of ninjew / BHK to avoid massive attack buffs. Not to mention MBP / GWC / satan, or medusa / WDT. From the lot, I dont think SoMM is the worst

    But to get back on the original topic: that is exactly the issue with playing against legendary heavy decks. Most of the legendaries are dangerous enough individually that they require instant removal or some combo of cards to deal with fast. When a deck is almost only legendaries its impossible to handle, you simply dont have the cards and energy to counter them all. I have faced decks with 5-6 legendaries, all level 3 or higher, of course combined with pope timmy and there just isnt much you can do.
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  6. #6
    Yea legendarys are stronger cards and this isnt the only game that does this. Nothing is free in life nor should it be.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by nik_lin Go to original post
    But to get back on the original topic: that is exactly the issue with playing against legendary heavy decks. Most of the legendaries are dangerous enough individually that they require instant removal or some combo of cards to deal with fast. When a deck is almost only legendaries its impossible to handle, you simply dont have the cards and energy to counter them all. I have faced decks with 5-6 legendaries, all level 3 or higher, of course combined with pope timmy and there just isnt much you can do.
    I agree with you. It isnít SOMMís fault. Itís the stacking legendaries part that is too much. Tbh though I would nerf Incan Craig as he is probably the single strongest card in the game currently.

    Originally Posted by Marioncovee2019
    Yea legendarys are stronger cards and this isnt the only game that does this. Nothing is free in life nor should it be.
    At this point Iíve spent between $30-$50 on this game. Full production value console games go for $60 typically. I believe in supporting the project, but not if that means that whales buying legendaries for $20 a pop are going to cap my rating.

    Thereís something to be said towards trying to open a game up to as many people as possible vs. the ďtarget the addictsĒ strategy that many mobile games, and I hate to say it, alcoholic beverage companies employ. In economics they refer to it as broadening the base - and the extent to which that strategy is effective is dependent on the application - but Iíll tell you right now that people like me who spend $5 here or there are probably the majority of their player base and if the game dies because people like me leave the whales will move on too. I would argue that it is in Ubisoftís best interest to keep participation as high as possible and that demands some real attempt at balancing legendary cards vs the rest of the card pool.

    Honestly it isnít even in pay to win scenarios like this that this argument is completely nonsensical. Itís bad game design to purposefully make a specific set of actions (in this case, cards) overpowered. This kills games. I donít know how old you are but World of Warcraft has nearly 200 MILLION accounts and almost all of them are inactive right now. Bad design kills games. And they were getting $15/mo per active subscription.
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  8. #8
    I'm old enough to have lived through the entire wow experience and the games that led up to wow. If you're trying to suggest that blizzard screwed up with charging for wow you're terribly terribly terribly mistaken one more time terribly mistaken. They made a ton of money and those that didn't participate in wow I feel bad for you maybe your parents didn't care about buying games that you were interested in or maybe you were obsessed with never paying for anything but if you didn't get to participate in the wow experience well oh well it was fun nothing last forever and again nothing is free nor should it be. Wow lasted very long and of course its dead or dying now just like this game wont last forever either. I put it this way those that have money right now and paid for legendary cards and got to be at the top ranks of this game they are experiencing a different fun then all the f2p players. By the time all the hardcore f2p players reach the top this game will most likely be dead and don't worry about what else at that point because they'll probably be gone. The point is a lot of video game companies realize that nothing lasts forever and milk it while you can because people will pay and it depends on how you look at it. You can say somebody that rents movies is wasting their money or somebody that put gasoline in their cars as opposed to electricity. A really good example of air conditioning we don't have to have air conditioning our grandparents didn't have air conditioning but we choose to have it it's a luxury so if you think you're going to change the way companies make money you're not.
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  9. #9
    they are not IMO, I am 7400s right now with 7500 already reached, only 2 legends being used are a lowly Medusa 3 and SOMM 3, because I actually don't have anything else to use, Inuit isn't needed, WDT and Incan are stuck at level 2.... how I se it right now are the main cards are actually rares/epics, if it isnt the generic staff/zen/ypc/santa/sharon/SOMM/WDT/..... etc its bradley based fantasy spam, the legendary cards dont get used, all that much.

    and in terms of WOW, once wow went to T3 gear, these Teamspeak using raid gear equipped premade groups were winning battlegrounds on gear alone, skill went out of the window completely, and yes it was possible to beat those clans in full T2, because I have seen it for myself.
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  10. #10
    they are not IMO, I am 7400s right now with 7500 already reached, only 2 legends being used are a lowly Medusa 3 and SOMM 3, because I actually don't have anything else to use, Inuit isn't needed, WDT and Incan are stuck at level 2.... how I se it right now are the main cards are actually rares/epics, if it isnt the generic staff/zen/ypc/santa/sharon/SOMM/WDT/..... etc its bradley based fantasy spam, the legendary cards dont get used all that much. the biggest effect in the whole setup is staff/zen giving a massive advantage.

    if Superheros were viable, I would be running at a similar rank with JUST SOMM as a legendary (until hankey gets to 3 as he fits an assassin role thats needed)

    and in terms of WOW, once wow went to T3 gear, these Teamspeak using raid gear equipped premade groups were winning battlegrounds on gear alone, skill went out of the window completely, and yes it was possible to beat those clans in full T2, because I have seen it for myself.
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