Centurion's needed changes/fixes prioritized

**EvoX.** · 09-06-2019

From your one and only Centurion main.

I won't go over in detail what Centurion is, has become, his identity, role, reasons for changes and so on. You can read Knight_Raime's thread for that, it's written pretty well. I will simply list everything wrong with TG Centurion and say how important it is to fix it plus the best way to fix it before the rework going live. First of all...

Very high priority - compulsory, must be addressed:

- Centurion's mixup can be back dodge-rolled on reaction if you are hit by a light or you have blocked a heavy.

Comment: The main thing that even remotely justifies all of the numerous nerfs he received, does not work. Yeap, kind of ridiculous, but it's why Centurion's in Testing Grounds. There are a number of ways to fix this, involving adding forward movement, improving tracking, leaving it to roll catchers, etc. However, the preferred method is to make his Jab feint-GB track backdodges, which it should, but it doesn't. Hitokiri does not have this issue at all, Centurion shouldn't either.

- Jab feint is extremely slow unless feinted instantly, delay + 400ms, making dodges either being out of range (back dodge) or recovering in time for a Counter Guardbreak (side dodge).

Comment: I previously thought the feint-GB was simply not standardized to the new 300ms timing, but after finding a willing player to test, it's actually even more than that. There is a very noticeable delay of about 100-200ms before Guardbreak even comes out at its old speed. That's just insane. Jab needs to have the standard feint-GB timing of 300ms throughout its whole feint window. Nothing less.

High priority - need to be updated to the current pace of the game:

- Legion's Kick is unchanged, a bash requiring 300ms of forward dash and being 600ms fast.

Comment: Outdated, archaic, reactable to below average players 100% of the time, very punishable. Cannot remain this way. This is where you can freely choose from your established neutral bash models, most are at least usable. Tiandi's and Warlord's are the most balanced, in my opinion.

- Delays.

Comment: So many of them... everything has a delay. This makes Centurion feel very clunky to play, his flow from the live game is completely out the window. There is no reason for any of this. He does not care about walls anymore. His heavies are not 600ms anymore. He does not get guaranteed 65 damage anymore. Hell, his UB heavy can be parried very consistently unless his throw/Parry Counter hit a wall from at least above medium range. What the hell? These delays are atrocious, serve no purpose and need to be completely scrapped.

- Eagle's Fury is unchanged.

Comment: His dash heavy is very slow, has terrible tracking, terrible recovery and terrible range. Completely fails at being a roll catcher, or anything really. Increasing its range and speeding it up would be the best course of action.

Medium priority - things that should be reviewed over a second time:

- Heavies' GB vulnerability is too high.

Comment: 400ms of GB vulnerability for a 700ms heavy. Not only did his heavies take a hit in the speed department, they also got quadruple recovery? Excessive. Either his heavies should return to 600ms and have 200ms of vulnerability, or they should stay at 700ms and return to 100ms. At the very least, halve that 400ms to 200ms. Right now, it's too much.

- Lion's Roar triggers stamina regeneration and does not benefit from Haymaker.

Comment: I'm not too sure whether these are bugs or not, but I'm putting it here. Centurion's overall damage was nuked already, don't see why the move should not proc Haymaker. However, the stamina damage is more important. It is currently useless for it, so fixing the opponent's stamina starting to regenerate during it is very important. Otherwise there is just no use for it.

- Parry Counter's input window and range are too small.

Comment: The input window is harsh, but honestly it can be looked past if the range was set to its old value. Still, a bit of leniency on it would be appreciated. Parry Counter would be okay even like this, however, if that incessant delay before the heavy was removed, as already mentioned above.

Low priority/QoL/suggested changes - would be great to get adjusted or implemented:

- Jab should be able to be activated on a whiffed light or heavy. Would be good for his flow.

- Charged finisher heavies range is very, very small. A notable, but not too big of an increase would be helpful.

- His Jab and UB heavy should be target-swappable during charging. Would make him a better 4v4 pick.

Conclusion: currently, Centurion is far from a good and finished state. In my opinion, and from the looks of comments I've read, he kind of... lost more than he gained. Everything that I've listed up above has been the result of a nerf, so you can see the list is huge. The exchange for all of those nerfs - the mixup - doesn't even work properly, but even if it did, it would still be too big of a price to pay. He is currently just a worse Hitokiri - yeah, everyone hates these comparisons, but it's true.

However, the foundation of the new Centurion has great potential. Hopefully the purpose of the testing grounds is utilized just for that: turning the potential into reality. Addressing his mixup not functioning the way it should, buffing his two outdated moves, adjusting his bad flow due to delays and doing some smaller tweaks would make him, I dare say, a model hero of this game.

I hope this feedback is helpful.

**Knight_Raime** · 09-07-2019

"From your one and only Centurion main."

Boy you're testing my-

"You can read Knight_Raime's thread for that, it's written pretty well."

nevermind you're forgiven.

"Very high priority. Centurion's mixup"

agree.

"Legion's Kick/Eagle's Fury High priority."

agree.

"Heavies' GB vulnerability is too high."

Agree. but 300ms instead of 200ms. all 600-700ms heavies should be 300ms as to work with the new feint into GB being 300ms instead of 400ms. Low GB vulnerability heavies are something that should be addressed by the devs at some point game wide. 100ms/200ms is a bit too low. 300ms means no inconsistency issues but feint into GB can still work on a read vs these heavies. So you'd have a better chance of realistically punishing these moves but it wouldn't be something that's doable on reaction.

"Lion's Roar triggers stamina regeneration and does not benefit from Haymaker."

I'd be satisfied with not doing damage via haymaker if lion's roar did proper stamina bully damage. As i'd also be fine with haymaker working on it again at the cost of it doing less stamina damage. Currently it doesn't do either. Ideally i'd like it to proper bully stamina and do damage with haymaker (but at 5 instead of 10) and then reduce the pause on stamina gain the move does when the person is OOS.

"Parry Counter's input window and range are too small."

Agree on input. Not sure about the range though. I deff feel it. But idk if the nerf to the range is what makes it feel bad. I think it's the delay for throwing out a heavy after throws and the counter that effects it's consistency more.

"Jab should be able to be activated on a whiffed light or heavy. Would be good for his flow."

Not the first time i've seen this suggestion. I don't really agree though. His mix up games if fixed are potent enough as is. cent has a whiff punish through his charged attacks as is which is enough imo.

"Charged finisher heavies range is very, very small. A notable, but not too big of an increase would be helpful."

Big agree. It feels awful and limits the UB mix ups by a significant amount imho.

"His Jab and UB heavy should be target-swappable during charging. Would make him a better 4v4 pick."

Big agree. Honestly more moves need to be target swappable in general. would make team fights a lot more interesting to watch imo.

"I hope this feedback is helpful."

between your thread and my thread here and on comp reddit i'm PRAYING that a mod has picked it up and sent it in. I see a lot of talk about centurion but not enough in depth talk about his changes. At least on pc it feels like people have already abandoned the testing grounds because they saw what did and didn't work initially and ran with it. Not saying the other 2 heros were any better off in the test. But we've got plenty of mains stepping out to talk about them in the depth you and I are talking for centurion. I hope the devs don't take a lack of conversation about him to mean they did well and don't itterate on him at all and ship as is.

**SixAxe505** · 09-07-2019

Or...here is an unpopular idea...maybe getting out of the mix-up is working as intended. Maybe speeding up his lights and allowing jab and jab feints is the new way to play. Maybe hitokiri mix-up is broken and will be adjusted to be reactable/escapable as well and centurion is the beta test for it. Food for thought.

**Tunatun** · 09-07-2019

"Or...here is an unpopular idea...maybe getting out of the mix-up is working as intended. Maybe speeding up his lights and allowing jab and jab feints is the new way to play. Maybe hitokiri mix-up is broken and will be adjusted to be reactable/escapable as well and centurion is the beta test for it. Food for thought."

I fell it is like saying that "it's okey that enemy can dodge away after warden's double tap, while warden does a heavy attack, or that it's okey that you can "now" interrupt jorm's openers"
I would agree that getting-out-of-mix-ups should be there, when there is a threat from an enemy. But cent is just crippled stamina bully. No damage, most moves are slow and predictable, e.t.c
IF they want to change him that drastically, i don see a reason why they didn't
change the way you implied
changed hito
described the way they want cent to be on the site

**EvoX.** · 09-07-2019