Raider | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

Hitokiri relies on HA spam to be a noob stomper but spam at High levels is a death sentence. Raider on the other hand dominates but low level and high level gameplay

Lolno raider does not dominate high level play. He's good. but he's not insane.
Hito is much more of a problem because of her easy trade armor on opening heavies and her consistent 30 damage per landed mix up deletes people quickly.
Not to mention she's the only hero in the game that can negate warden's spacing advantage on close maps. Making the match up in her favor.


raider struggles to get going offense wise and his mix ups are easy enough to handle outside his neutral zone into soft feints. and even that is dealt with on one parry timing if he's external to you. even if he manages to get offense going he can't keep it because of how much stamina his soft feints cost him.

[Siegfried-Z]

Lolno raider does not dominate high level play. He's good. but he's not insane.
Hito is much more of a problem because of her easy trade armor on opening heavies and her consistent 30 damage per landed mix up deletes people quickly.
Not to mention she's the only hero in the game that can negate warden's spacing advantage on close maps. Making the match up in her favor.


raider struggles to get going offense wise and his mix ups are easy enough to handle outside his neutral zone into soft feints. and even that is dealt with on one parry timing if he's external to you. even if he manages to get offense going he can't keep it because of how much stamina his soft feints cost him.

Still Raider is a popular pick in comp play.

While the HA is a certain advantage a decent player should be able to deal with it.

What do you mean by she is the only one able to negate Warden spacing ?

[Knight_Raime]

Still Raider is a popular pick in comp play.

While the HA is a certain advantage a decent player should be able to deal with it.

What do you mean by she is the only one able to negate Warden spacing ?

Her charged heavies reach warden who normally sits outside your edge range.

So warden can't out space her in smaller areas.

You can't really deal with her mix up in any significantly easy way which makes her early HA that much more powerful.
The reason she's not picked up in comp as a hard pick is because heal on block is usually banned and there are better heros for single picking and the like.

Raider is picked up because he's an all rounder hero unlike her. That doesn't change though that raider isn't insane at high level in terms of stomping. He overly relies on stunning tap which comp players are more than capable of blocking and parrying.

[Vakris_One]

Competetive players are also overcapable of dealing with a trade happy Hitokiri tho. Not to mention there is a reason why Raider has been accepted as S tier by everyone while hitokiri is debated to be S tier by the console players and Competitive players while considered A tier in PC. I wonder when will they delay her HA

There is no debate going on in the competitive scene right now. As someone who does competitive scrims I can tell you that competitive players have no real issues with Raider whereas Hitokiri's hyper armour from neutral is widely accepted as a problem area.

[Knight_Raime]

Competetive players are also overcapable of dealing with a trade happy Hitokiri tho. Not to mention there is a reason why Raider has been accepted as S tier by everyone while hitokiri is debated to be S tier by the console players and Competitive players while considered A tier in PC. I wonder when will they delay her HA

Kay so firstly tier placement is not the end all be all like you're using it as. Raider being S tier doesn't mean raider is a god. It just means raider is good. So does A tier. What matters is why a hero is there. In raider's case as i've already mentioned it's because he's an all rounder. He's got good ganks, good team fights, and good mid clear/presence. This doesn't mean offensively he stomps people which is what you seem to be implying. Conq is also S tier. But he's not good at pretty much everything sans being hard to dislodge from B. he's very hard to solo against because of his many option selects. But he's bad pretty much everywhere else.

Hitokiri is entirely in her place because the way her HA works in junction with her mix up netting constantly 30 or higher damage means she stalls someone out. Because trying to go offensive against her is very difficult. It's true that if you have a hitokiri always commit to a heavy on red indicator that you can easily bait and parry. This is by far and away not how you play her optimally. And if i'm being blunt here there is a reason why competitive players basically say raider is mostly fine where she is at versus Hitokiri being universally stated as needing to be changed by the competitive community.

Finally we don't even have an accurate tier list anymore. The tier list on the comp reddit is at least 2 if not 3 seasons out of date. And it's not even a tier list made by competitive players opinions. It encompasses some competitive players opinions and some non competitive players opinion's done through a voting system that was done specifically for that tier list (as far as i'm aware.) The last true competitive made tier list we had was made by setymx and that one was where people lost their gourd because LB was considered very strong. We might get individual tier lists by competitive players themselves every now and then. But we're never getting an officially sanctioned tier list from the competitive players ever again.

So you're far better off not using tier lists in discussions and actually learning match ups and the nitty gritty details for how to do 4's in order to be able to hold discussions.

[DeamonXII]

@AmonDarkGod - Thats your opinion! My opinion is: Don´t nerf Raider - Nerf Jormun and Centurio!!

@Tocksyk: If you are unable to parry the slow Raider Zone, than you should play a little more FH...... And I don´t believe that 1 heavy reduce half of the health.
You should learn to parry zone and keep your defence above........
80% of his attacks are to the head or zone. It´s simple except he makes his GB´s between his actions......

No offense but you sounds like a person who jump on raider because of how easy to use him, and i say raider's playerbase before he is getting a buff is better to face than today playerbase since today raider playerbase is mostly toxic and spammy while old raider playerbase use their time to master him and know his kit so they can mixup their opponent and fyi he is way too strong because of the damage and shugoki even have a way slower and more predictable heavy to deal the same damage as him.

[SixAxe505]

Hitokiri relies on HA spam to be a noob stomper but spam at High levels is a death sentence. Raider on the other hand dominates but low level and high level gameplay

Factually incorrect. Hitokiri can throw a 50/50 mix up with ease at low and high levels of play. In addition to feinting with HA to guarantee attacks on trade. A well played hito is comparable to raider. Player skill is a factor.

[DeamonXII]

Kay so firstly tier placement is not the end all be all like you're using it as. Raider being S tier doesn't mean raider is a god. It just means raider is good. So does A tier. What matters is why a hero is there. In raider's case as i've already mentioned it's because he's an all rounder. He's got good ganks, good team fights, and good mid clear/presence. This doesn't mean offensively he stomps people which is what you seem to be implying. Conq is also S tier. But he's not good at pretty much everything sans being hard to dislodge from B. he's very hard to solo against because of his many option selects. But he's bad pretty much everywhere else.

Hitokiri is entirely in her place because the way her HA works in junction with her mix up netting constantly 30 or higher damage means she stalls someone out. Because trying to go offensive against her is very difficult. It's true that if you have a hitokiri always commit to a heavy on red indicator that you can easily bait and parry. This is by far and away not how you play her optimally. And if i'm being blunt here there is a reason why competitive players basically say raider is mostly fine where she is at versus Hitokiri being universally stated as needing to be changed by the competitive community.

Finally we don't even have an accurate tier list anymore. The tier list on the comp reddit is at least 2 if not 3 seasons out of date. And it's not even a tier list made by competitive players opinions. It encompasses some competitive players opinions and some non competitive players opinion's done through a voting system that was done specifically for that tier list (as far as i'm aware.) The last true competitive made tier list we had was made by setymx and that one was where people lost their gourd because LB was considered very strong. We might get individual tier lists by competitive players themselves every now and then. But we're never getting an officially sanctioned tier list from the competitive players ever again.

So you're far better off not using tier lists in discussions and actually learning match ups and the nitty gritty details for how to do 4's in order to be able to hold discussions.

His heavy is still too much for being faster and has hyper armor while shugoki's heavy is slower and to deal the same damage, he needs charged heavy and it is not useable unless your opponent did a wrong read/guess and shugoki's mixup is worse than raider's(i still agree on nerfing hito first before raider since hitokiri is more obnoxious to face than raider and today raiders are too easy to read, wish i can face against raider's playerbase before he got buffed)

[Justifi3d]

Honestly, all I really want is his stunning tap to be reactable and a damage nerf. I'm tired of playing an assassin that gets killed in 2 hits by a raider if I don't play everything perfectly.

[Haplo_Bane]

The raider....oohhh the raider. Nothing constructive to say other than the poor bloke was neglected for so long he kinda deserves his moment in sun. Yea...he's op, but Raider : GO HARD BUDDY while you still can.