1. #61
    Hello, i was testing Centurion, i played him 24 Repetitions and was really excited about the rework.
    FIrst I want to say what i really liked about him on the testing grounds:
    +)The Zoneattack feint
    +)Faster lightattacks
    +)Unblockable feint

    What i really missed:
    +)useable kick, the kick is quite useless

    I also dont liked the rest of the changes
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  2. #62
    Originally Posted by Siegfried-Z Go to original post
    I just noticed it myself for the wallsplat.. its not always guaranteed now.

    I didnt watch the freeze vid so far but if the mix up is 100% avoidable in some situation then i 100% agree the team should fix it before he goes live.

    It doesnt change the fact i think his bash dmg at least on the charged punch are too high with haymaker (55) but its just crazy they are not able to noticed issues like that by themselves :/
    I think his damage total is perfectly fine considering the effort required to pull off said punishes. But if they had to nerf haymaker's damage in order to allow it back on lion's roar i'd begrudgenly accept it. So long as they fixed the bug with lion's stamina damage.
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  3. #63
    Will try warlord tonight. I think you guys did a great job putting this up! Great idea
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  4. #64
    For Warlord:

    I think he needs plenty more work

    Current Changes:
    Pros: Enhanced lights allow him to continue pressure, block and stab from fullblock actually works now, uninterruptible buff on combo heavies are nice
    Cons: Lights don't combo into any meaningful pressure, headbutt and block and stab from fullbock do effectively the same thing (why would I use block and stab when headbutt riposte does the same + stamina damage?), headbutt isn't the best, fullblock is still bad, helmsplitter is still bad, general recoveries are still bad.

    My Ideas
    I wanted to make every move (yes every move) have situational use in hit kit, while promoting flow and effective offense.

    General Changes:
    Can cancel his finisher recoveries with a forward dodge (more flow)

    Zone Attack:
    Can cancel the recovery of your zone attack with Full Block Stance (some more safety when using his zone attack in team fights)

    Light Attacks:
    Top opener light is now undodgeable (when you wallsplat and use helmsplitter, immediately after there is now a mixup, maybe not a favourable one, between headbutt, zone and top opener light for both reflex AND regular guard characters)
    Top finisher light damage reduced to 15 (from 18), speed increased to 500ms (from 600ms, for general usability), hit reaction reduced to light (from medium)

    Heavy Attacks:
    Side finisher heavies are now unblockable, no longer uninterruptible, damage reduced to 35 (from 40, for actual chain pressure)
    Top finisher heavy damage increased to 40 (from 35, for punishes and trading)

    Headbutt:
    Dodge window reduced to 600ms (from 800ms)

    Crashing Charge:
    No longer wallsplats
    Can no longer be dodged 100ms later than regular unblockable melees (no frowned upon OOL game when the enemy has stamina, effective pressure when the enemy is OOS)

    Full Block Stance:
    Recovery to counter guard break, guard break reduced to 400ms (from 600ms)
    Recovery to block, attack, and dodge increased to 400ms (from 0ms)
    Now is COMPLETELY uninterruptible after startup (old Shugoki passive, a UNIQUE fullblock that now acts as your "dodge attack" for unblockable melees when combining it with board and blade)

    Board and Blade:
    Damage reduced to 20 (from 30)
    Now is COMPLETELY uninterruptible (old Shugoki passive) from 0-600ms
    Counts as a chain starter (allow you to continue pressure, see full block stance)

    Headbutt Riposte+Combo/Block and Stab:
    Having both moves together is redundant, why use Block and Stab when I can get the same damage from Headbutt Riposte with stamina damage? Although I feel like since so much work has been done to Block and Stab to make it worthwhile, Headbutt Riposte should be removed.

    Helmsplitter Leap+Alternative:
    Increased tracking, forward movement, speed increased to 700ms (from 900ms), becomes uninterruptible from 400ms onwards (from 500ms onwards, oh god why is it so bad)

    Helmsplitter Leap Alternative:
    Can be used 100-400ms into a forward dodge (from 300-400ms, see above)
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  5. #65

    Testing grounds glad proposed changes;

    Glad proposed changes;

    I've been playing the testing grounds version of glad and been having a lot of fun.

    While good changes, the buffs glad received are still not enough to bring him up on par with the most viable characters.

    Here's what i think could be done with him, to make him viable and retain his identity;

    //these changes already include the testing ground changes



    Glad's role in 4s;



    The role I aspire glad to cover in a competitive dom team is the one of a decent ganker, good duelist, good teamfighter with easy to access external pressure,good staller and above average antiganker.

    All of this accompanied by fast running speed to allow easy backcaps and quick ganks and rotations.

    To do so, here's the changes i have in mind, but first;



    Starter heavy gb vuln is now 400 ms;

    //100 ms gb vuln heavies should, globally, not be a thing



    Qol changes;

    1)Runnings speed is now on par with shaolin;

    //explained aboxe

    2)Heavy attacks(includes skewer) are softfeintable with a dodge 400 ms before they hit;

    //This would increase the mobiity glad has during teamfights and would help with his overall bad recoveries

    3)Neutral and chained top lights are enhanced;

    //Neutral enhanced top light will help him to get to his buffed chain pressure more easily, while the second change goes well together with the forward doge bash changes proposed below

    4)Dodge recovery cancel of all his light attacks, included dodge lights
    //Improving his teamfights

    5)Recovery of second part of the zone can be dodge cancelled


    Dodge light attacks;

    1)Forward dodge light tracking slightly increased;



    2)Side dodge light input window is now the same as forward dodge light;



    //What these changes aim to do is:

    1)Improve his chase

    2)Improve his teamfights and ability to punish bashes, improves the flow of the character



    Dodge bash attacks;

    1)Forward dodge bash is now 500 ms;



    2)Forward and side dodge bash now have a light attack link both on hit and whiff; //the light is not confirmed



    3)Forward dodge bash input window is 100-300 ms into the dodge;

    //early dodge defeats the forward dodge bash, but loses to dodge forward zone

    4)Side dodge bash is now 533 ms;

    5)Side dodge bash input window is 200-400 ms into the dodge;

    6)Reduced block recovery on hit



    //What these changes aim to do is:

    1/2/3) Make his forward dodge bash offense ( glad's chained lights coupled with stun are unreactable) , even though when taken alone is not enough since it works well with the rest of glad's kit, similiarly to bp

    4/5/6) Make his dodge bash a better defensive tool and safer to throw out when 1vxing



    Toe stab;

    1)Neutral toe stab is 533/566 ms;



    2)Chain toe stab is 500 ms;



    3)OOS Neutral toe stab is 533/566 ms;



    4)OOS chain toe stab is 500 ms;



    5)Toe stab damage increased to 15;



    6)Greatly reduced gb recovery on all versions of toe stab so it's not GBable on a reaction dodge;



    7)Slightly reduced block and dodge recovery on all versions of toestab so it's safer to throw out in teamfights and safe against the slower dodge attacks;


    8)Slightly increase time opponent stays on the ground after a toe stab when oos so the heavy it's safe (or make it so the heavy comes out quicker);


    //What these changes aim to do is:

    1)Make neutral toe stab harder to dodge when in a 1v2 while still leaving it quite consistently reactable in duels for it

    not to be obnoxious to fight against

    2)Make chained toe stab unreactable/not consistenyly reactable in duels

    3/4)Improve glad's oos pressure quite noticeably

    5/6/7)Improve the move overall

    NOTE: These changes suppose that chained heavies track prediction dodges of chain toe stab;



    Skewer;

    1)Skewer is now dodge softfeintable;



    2)Skewer now does 28 direct damage + 12 bleed , 4 damage x 3 tics;



    3)A parried skewer doesn't equal glad being oos anymore;



    What these changes aim to do is:

    1)Explained above

    2)Makes skewer vastly better in teamfights due to glad not having to stick for a while on an opponent to get damage in

    3)Self explainatory
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  6. #66
    Centurion: his mix-up can be completely avoided by a simple back dodge.

    Centurion need more tracking on back dodge and his jab need to follow up even if the light/heavy miss the target (like Black Prior shield bash on a missed light)

    His starting heavys need to be like they were before (600ms instead of 700ms) more quicker and allow him to parry punish with a heavy. (this particular thing is the main part of the Centurion and need to come back)

    His entire combat flow is literally unfun without the heavy after parry + knee.

    While his heavy on parry should come back, the light damage can be 15 instead of 17.

    For the kick i think this would fit well:

    Hide his kick indicator for 100ms (same animation, 500ms indicator)

    Eagle Fury (Old and unchanged move that can't be used): [Speed it up to catch back dodges]

    Eagle Fury need to let the him go for a jab if miss the target

    Pin (pin is now without sense):

    Pin need to confirm a jab then a light, this will help Centurion to have a small punish on missed parry.

    Plus: [issue] Now is more hard to use the GB after the Lion Roar, after that the Centurion simply realese the target. (totally different from how is fluid in the basic game). His whole Guard Brake game is slow and weird in testing grounds, no need to be like that.
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  7. #67

    Centurion Changes Feedback

    Overall Cent feels now like a real brawler, which is great, but some changes are questionable and hurt him and some parts of his kit are still in dire need of improvement.

    It is still noticable that he has not improved much against mobile characters that can space him properly like gladiator (that it is such an unfair match up). Before cent had at least his high punishes off of a parry and in conjunction with a wall which could make up in some battlegrounds for his lack in his fighting kit given he could turtle and capitalize on a parry chance.

    Now the current cent from the test grounds has little to no tools to successfully chase an opponent. If he is in his face however he can be sticking like clue but he is overall stil quite weak to interruptions such as quick lights and dodge attacks are quite safe on him as they usually cancel out 2 out of 3 of his jap options and one if not the poorest range and tracking to be seen within the game. His max punishes seem low as hell. Upping his light damage compensates quite a bit.

    Heavies
    Heavies provide poor damage, decreasing the charge timing seems ok and helping the character to stay aggressive switch things up without losing too much momentum. However! No 100 ms gb immunity on the heavies anymore makes centurion pretty unsafe to counter read softfeint attempts with a heavy. I would say this is a no-no.

    After a heavy parry heavies are not guaranteed and side heavies don't even hit the opponent creating an opening for the opponent. Tops can be blocked. Weird decision making imo.

    This leads towards a great shift in centurion's play which is much more light focused than on heavies compared to before. His "quite safe" offense got dulled by the removal of the 100 ms gb vulnerability (granting a direct counter and often leading up to a followup heavy for more chip damage).

    Charged heavy cancel options are neat and ok so far I believe. Maybe a little too easy to distinguish what is coming.

    Lights
    So far so good. They are his bread and butter now and the only hope to catch and interrupt opponents and also to build up damage while trying to cage an opponent in a vortex scenario.

    Eagle's Fury
    Eagle's Fury (dodge forward heavy) is in dire need to be improved. This is one true dead kit part of centurion. Only the hyper armor allows him from time to time to initiate it but it's way too slow and risky to use it from neutral or running and since it is an easy parry and cent has only the kick as an alternative so it's not part of any grand mix up that puts people into a tight spot.
    Legion kick and Eagle's Fury can be dodged all the same. The recovery on a miss is pretty high and cannot chain into anything on a whiff. On hit you can just chain it into a jab.

    It needs to be more functional. What you could do: Improve speed, give it choosable attacking directions, make it cancelable, create more mixup options not only after hit but also after whiffing.

    Lion's Roar
    is apparently bugged. The stamina damage is way too low. Has little usage overall and does not benefit from haymaker atm. I would suggest to provide next to some more stamina damage some real damage as well. Like 5 per hit for example. This way you would have 15 dmg (less than a light or heavy) but still stam damage and after two hits 10 damage that could raise his current wallsplat damage from 25-30 to 35-40. The third hit of course would have to have some special properties to make it also a worthwhile decision to go for at times, such as much more stamina damage than the hits before, granting a lasting blinding effect or some additional dmg, mayhaps even a bleed.

    Jab
    Good. I overall like the changes and can on a read successfully punish early dodgers with a fully charged jap to eagle's talons. Nevertheless the cancel seems usually a bit late so cent is quite prone to be interrupted. Could be finetuned a bit maybe.
    I would have liked it that the direction the jab was thrown might make a difference in its properties. Uppercut tracks better backdodges, hook side dodges or the other way around.

    Also it is noticable that a whiffed light or heavy cannot chain into a jab. A light has to connect and and a heavy has to be blocked at least.

    Note that his mixup can be avoided by a backdodge if he hits with a light or the heavy is being blocked.

    Legion Kick
    Still the same as before. Quite easy to dodge. Opponents that do a side dodge into gb can be punished with a heavy as usual, it is somewhat ok but this won't be a helpful tool in high level plays. The kick would need to be a notch faster I think

    Zone Attack
    Great changes. Really helps to mix things up and the costs are low enough to launch several after another after canceling midway and mixing it up with other attacks.

    Parry Counter
    No heavy guaranteed only a light. :-/

    Combos
    He needs his chains completely opened up to be truely mix up intensive and aggressive. Also provide him one or two additional tools or polish Eagle's Fury further to have it available as a further tool to be used mid fight. Otherwise he is just a light-jap- spam hero that occasionally mixes some heavies in too and thrives on changing his jap charge timing and that's about it.

    Dodge attack
    There is none.

    Dodge tracking tools
    None aside of light attacks used on read that only work on close opponents. Kensei and JJ for example wouldn't get hit I am pretty certain.
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  8. #68
    I have a question. If you're going to - or rather when - force this new Centurion on people can you give people ability to pick between the old mix ups and new ones? I don't like new Centurion and it's a straight up copy past of Hitokiri ********. If you dodge you'll get a GB and a heavy but if you don't dodge you'll be hit with attack and still get heavy in face. There should be some work put into stuff like this.

    Main problem of this is that giving a hero 50/50 is a ********, mostly because as I mentioned you'll be GB the moment you'll innitiate a dodge but if you won't dodge you'll be hit anyway resulting in the same situation. Ubi pls, for once in your hero reworking look at the results of your actions.
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  9. #69
    I'm not sure I understand. You'd like cent's heavy parry punish to be a heavy?

    "After a heavy parry heavies are not guaranteed and side heavies don't even hit the opponent"

    Standard punish for heavy parry is a light or zone.
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  10. #70
    Warlord is still very linear. His only pressure comes from the headbutt/dash gb mix up. He's got great defense but no real offense. Also I feel that not having a side dodge headbutt hurts him a lot. Lawbringer, conq and Jiang Jun all have side doge punish tool.

    Maybe a soft feint during the 2nd heavy could be nice. Like a bash.
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