1. #1
    I found a few sites through Google about aces of WWII. I have seen it long ago but wasn't part of this forums at the time and didn't get to discuss it with anybody else.

    What always was of interest to me is that the top German aces tallied up a lot more kills than the Allied aces. I am referring to kills per individual. What would you say the reason would be for this? Was it that they were :
    1)Better pilots
    2)Made most of their kills early in the War
    against lesser adversaries (eg the earlier
    Russian planes)
    3)Had better planes throughout the war
    4)Was better trained or more experienced at the
    start of the war
    5)Had more targets to shoot at during a fight
    6)Any other

    Lastly, just to pee a few people off, I don't think the P-47 nor the P-51 won the war. I believe that it works like an RTS pc game. The Germans could not keep up with the resources that the Allieds were able to produce in terms of both men and material. They never had a chance. By the time the P-47 and P-51 became big news the Germans were already set back heavily because of restricted resources. Imagine what would have happened if they were able to produce the Me-262 in the same quantities as the Me-109's. They would have kicked our butts. But, in my opinion the war was won on the ground and at sea.
    Now that's a hot potato. What do you guys and girls say about that?
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  2. #2
    K_Freddie's Avatar Senior Member
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    We all must have played strategy games like Warcraft, civilisations.. ect.

    The side that wins is the one that has the most resources. Better weapons only delay or hasten the inevitable.

    I was reading that link to Hartman. Interesting thing is that he (Hitler) said that the war was militarily lost as early as 1942/3 - the time Hartman met hitler for the second time.
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  3. #3
    tigertalon's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Dogfighter1969:
    2)Made most of their kills early in the War
    against lesser adversaries (eg the earlier
    Russian planes)
    I have to disagree with that point. Hartmann started fighting as late as 1943. The reasons why german pilots were able to rack up enormous kills compared to allied ones are two:

    1. Germans were short of pilots, so they stayed on the front for as long as possible (until they were either injured/incapacitated for further action/killed etc etc). Allied pilots were all rotated from battle field to training, so they could share experience.

    2. There were many American fighter pilots who flew 50 escort missions deep into the Germany, and they never even saw a German plane, so they couldn't get a victory. German pilots in the last years were bathing in 'target rich area'. They were virtually strafed from take off till landing. They always met oposition, mainly in overhelming odds (especially on East). Such an enviroment is clearly deadly for novice pilots, while it enables aces to get a lot of kills.

    Coupling upper two reasons gives a clear clue why we have 352 vs 40 or 60. I do not believe german pilots exaggerated claiming kills more than allied did.
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  4. #4
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  5. #5
    The reasons the Germans had such high-scoring Aces were due to several facters:

    1. The Germans learned much of their skill earlier ie, the Spanish Civil war experience.

    2. The Luftwaffe fought over a much longer period of time.

    3. The Luftwaffe did not get the kind of extended leave that, say, the US would get, especially in the later years of the war.

    4. A lot of pilots earned their kills during times like the Battle of France, Britain and especially in the killing fields of Russia.

    5.Luftwaffe pilots did tend to protect their Aces if they looked like they were in trouble. And who wouldn`t?
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  6. #6
    because they tallied their kills like IL2 they got 1 kill for a fighter and 4 kills for a 4 engine bomber
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  7. #7
    DuxCorvan's Avatar Senior Member
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    and they had no 50 mission tour of duty, but a never ending one.
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  8. #8
    Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
    because they tallied their kills like IL2 they got 1 kill for a fighter and 4 kills for a 4 engine bomber
    No. They got points not kills. A 4 engine bomber gave more points to the pilot but not more kills.
    Other thing is the overclaiming. In the Luftwaffe this was not that easy because the pilot who shoot an ennemy down had to have an other pilot to confirm the kill. If no one saw the kill it was not a confirmed one and did not count.

    So some pilots could have more kills than they actually got officially.
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  9. #9
    DKoor's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
    and they had no 50 mission tour of duty, but a never ending one.
    This is the main reason. Imagine the worth (in military terms) of one Luftwaffe veteran (let's say over 100 combat missions) and compare it to other air forces... it isn't even remotely comparable when you literally have seasoned veteran vs. rookie.

    Training? Yes, rookie may be trained well, but still combat is one thing training another.
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  10. #10
    Cuz the MK108 is overmodelled.
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