1. #31
    "Its real simple. Germany was the bad side so its clear that they lied."

    I am not so sure about the statement that they lied. I believe that quite a number of the German aces were merely doing what they were doing because they were good pilots and they were called up to war by their government. I have read too many times that some of those guys were not in agreement with the Nazi regime's political aspirations. You could of course say that they could have refused to be part of the war. That would have meant a firing squad for them, due to treason.
    I seem to believe that some of the squadron commanders were being checked by the Gestapo because of the doubt whether they were faithful to the Party.
    So I think that to some extent the claims of victories could have been accurate. Anyways, nothing could have stopped Allied pilots to also have lied. Just think of the fame they could have had if they 'scored' substantial kills, like the Germans.
    Share this post

  2. #32
    msalama's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,577
    Excellent book.
    +1
    Share this post

  3. #33
    Originally posted by Dogfighter1969:
    "Its real simple. Germany was the bad side so its clear that they lied."

    I am not so sure about the statement that they lied. I believe that quite a number of the German aces were merely doing what they were doing because they were good pilots and they were called up to war by their government. I have read too many times that some of those guys were not in agreement with the Nazi regime's political aspirations. You could of course say that they could have refused to be part of the war. That would have meant a firing squad for them, due to treason.
    I seem to believe that some of the squadron commanders were being checked by the Gestapo because of the doubt whether they were faithful to the Party.
    So I think that to some extent the claims of victories could have been accurate. Anyways, nothing could have stopped Allied pilots to also have lied. Just think of the fame they could have had if they 'scored' substantial kills, like the Germans.
    In one point Galland was in danger to get punishment for treason Source Gallands diary
    Share this post

  4. #34
    Originally posted by horseback:
    First of all, I never stated that the Gang of Fruitcakes' belief that the British and Americans could be talked into backing off was realistic. The Western Allies were convinced that Fascism had to be destroyed, or that it would eventually destroy western democracy. Hitler and his boys never took that openly stated principle seriously, thinking it was merely propaganda.

    Well, at least until it was far too late.

    However, Hitler's problems in Russia become vastly simpler if the US becomes truly neutral in 1942; he no longer has to maintain a credible force to defend the western shores of Fortress Europe or diddle about in the Med, doesn't have to invest in a large fleet of U-Boats and can concentrate all of western Europe's resources on his real goals to the east.

    At the same time, the Soviets get no fuel (especially avgas), no Airacobras, Mitchells or Havocs, no trucks, no food, no metals and chemicals, no munitions, and most important, no Bennie Goodman records via Lend Lease. They revert to their pre-Barbarossa world pariah status, with the knowledge that no one in the rest of the world is going to mourn their passing. If they were on the edge of dispair in late 1941, how do they recover from the blow of being deserted a year later, just as they are getting their footing?

    Those supplies were absolutely critical to Stalin in the 1942-43 period, and had Hitler been able to convince Churchill and Roosevelt that it was all a big misunderstanding, that all Germany really wanted was the fertile parts of Russia (and the oil fields and natural gas and so on to the south), the Soviets are in a vastly different position than the one they historically were in in late 1942.

    In 1942, the Soviets were holding off the Germans with their stockpiled supplies and Lend-Lease while trying to reestablish their industrial base east of the Urals. What happens if they lose the Lendlease portion of the equation?

    cheers

    horseback
    Some very good, well stated insights.
    Share this post

Page 4 of 4 ◄◄  First ... 234