I'm confused | Forums

[CRIMS0NM0NKEY]

Do nabushi and Ken still get a free hit after a successful one. If so that is BS since they have been sped up.

[Vakris_One]

Do nabushi and Ken still get a free hit after a successful one. If so that is BS since they have been sped up.

After a successful what?

[Siegfried-Z]

Do nabushi and Ken still get a free hit after a successful one. If so that is BS since they have been sped up.

Only Nobushi. 3rd light is guaranteed if the 2nd land.
Btw Kensei never had guaranteed hit in his kit.

[UbiInsulin]

Only Nobushi. 3rd light is guaranteed if the 2nd land.
Btw Kensei never had guaranteed hit in his kit.

Yeah. OP, are you thinking of Orochi's top light opener? Orochi was sped up too.

Kensei does now get a light after visually confirming pommel strike has connected, but I don't think that's exactly what we're talking about.

[TOCKSYK]

I think this should not be in the game. Getting guaranteed hits just because you landed a light shouldn't be the case. Only with bashes and parries, otherwise it's a disaster for a new player trying to learn
My friend got For Honor yesterday and said he has a tough time even blocking certain characters. Orochi and Nobushi are a nightmare for low levels. Light spam is ruining everything for new people, it either forces them to quit or it forces them to light spam. Either way it's a lose lose because we need more skilled people in the game

Before being a good Nobushi was an accomplishment, now if you put 1 hour of training into Nobushi you can win easily unless there's a god that parries 400 ms attacks in front of you. Orochi is still really bad, all Ubi did was make his light spam faster, proof that they don't want the low levels to change. Orochi may have the highest pick rate for players under rep 10

We want 400 ms lights out of this game. Make them only as a chain starter, heavy->light or light->light combos should never exist, we need to learn mix ups not train to have the fastest hand in the west

Who else agrees

[Knight_Raime]

I think this should not be in the game. Getting guaranteed hits just because you landed a light shouldn't be the case. Only with bashes and parries, otherwise it's a disaster for a new player trying to learn
My friend got For Honor yesterday and said he has a tough time even blocking certain characters. Orochi and Nobushi are a nightmare for low levels. Light spam is ruining everything for new people, it either forces them to quit or it forces them to light spam. Either way it's a lose lose because we need more skilled people in the game

Before being a good Nobushi was an accomplishment, now if you put 1 hour of training into Nobushi you can win easily unless there's a god that parries 400 ms attacks in front of you. Orochi is still really bad, all Ubi did was make his light spam faster, proof that they don't want the low levels to change. Orochi may have the highest pick rate for players under rep 10

We want 400 ms lights out of this game. Make them only as a chain starter, heavy->light or light->light combos should never exist, we need to learn mix ups not train to have the fastest hand in the west

Who else agrees

As I pointed out to you last time your new player argument doesn't hold ground when it's mentioned in the character's kit. The devs have already removed every psudeo guaranteed hits from the game. So that confusion isn't possible anymore.
Nobushi was gutted. She's no longer a good hero. If you're dying to her that's literally on you.

[UbiInsulin]

I think this should not be in the game. Getting guaranteed hits just because you landed a light shouldn't be the case. Only with bashes and parries, otherwise it's a disaster for a new player trying to learn
My friend got For Honor yesterday and said he has a tough time even blocking certain characters. Orochi and Nobushi are a nightmare for low levels. Light spam is ruining everything for new people, it either forces them to quit or it forces them to light spam. Either way it's a lose lose because we need more skilled people in the game

Before being a good Nobushi was an accomplishment, now if you put 1 hour of training into Nobushi you can win easily unless there's a god that parries 400 ms attacks in front of you. Orochi is still really bad, all Ubi did was make his light spam faster, proof that they don't want the low levels to change. Orochi may have the highest pick rate for players under rep 10

We want 400 ms lights out of this game. Make them only as a chain starter, heavy->light or light->light combos should never exist, we need to learn mix ups not train to have the fastest hand in the west

Who else agrees

I don't want to sound mean, but your friend arguably *should* have a tougher time on his first day. If every new player was blocking consistently on the first day then we'd have a pretty big problem with offense. There's also the fact that he can't be familiar with everyone's moveset at this point. It's gonna take some practice.

I'm not great at the game and have a hard time with Orochi myself. I've spent some time in training just blocking Orochi lights from a bot with no move cooldown (not even going to try for parries at this point).

You're not the only person I've seen mention that the Orochi changes don't impact things for high level play. It's something we'll monitor. For example: I'm not reading too much into it, but the EU Grand Finals of last weekend's Dominion tournament had an Orochi in it somehow (which completely shocked the casters, ofc).

[Soldier_of_Dawn]

I think this should not be in the game. Getting guaranteed hits just because you landed a light shouldn't be the case. Only with bashes and parries, otherwise it's a disaster for a new player trying to learn
My friend got For Honor yesterday and said he has a tough time even blocking certain characters. Orochi and Nobushi are a nightmare for low levels. Light spam is ruining everything for new people, it either forces them to quit or it forces them to light spam. Either way it's a lose lose because we need more skilled people in the game

Before being a good Nobushi was an accomplishment, now if you put 1 hour of training into Nobushi you can win easily unless there's a god that parries 400 ms attacks in front of you. Orochi is still really bad, all Ubi did was make his light spam faster, proof that they don't want the low levels to change. Orochi may have the highest pick rate for players under rep 10

We want 400 ms lights out of this game. Make them only as a chain starter, heavy->light or light->light combos should never exist, we need to learn mix ups not train to have the fastest hand in the west

Who else agrees

I'm okay with 400ms lights being in the game but, since they're unreactable, they need to be treated similar to guaranteed lights and have their damage reduced in order to reduce the viability of light-spam at lower to intermediate levels and encourage skill. I suggest the following guideline:

• 400ms: 6-10dmg
• 500ms: 11-15dmg
• 600ms: 16-20dmg

I also agree that For Honor needs to go in the direction of mixups, with more soft-feints and cancel options, overall since they require skill to apply and can't be abused from lower levels like:

• light spam
• unreactable 50/50s
• attacks with hyper armour on start-up
• bashes with quick start-ups and high recovery

[Knight_Raime]

I'm okay with 400ms lights being in the game but, since they're unreactable, they need to be treated similar to guaranteed lights and have their damage reduced in order to reduce the viability of light-spam at lower to intermediate levels and encourage skill. I suggest the following guideline:

• 400ms: 6-10dmg
• 500ms: 11-15dmg
• 600ms: 16-20dmg

I also agree that For Honor needs to go in the direction of mixups, with more soft-feints and cancel options, overall since they require skill to apply and can't be abused from lower levels like:

• light spam
• unreactable 50/50s
• attacks with hyper armour on start-up
• bashes with quick start-ups and high recovery

While I understand your perspective in principal I can't agree with it wholistically.

Your damage change suggestions follows Ubi's old logic. Making a slower attack do more damage is irrelevant when said attack will not land anyway. (this is why all 600ms lights are being removed.) Conversely it makes no sense to lower the damage the further someone goes in a chain either. As that just further makes chains worthless. There was only one case of 400ms lights doing too much damage and that was with berzerker's feinted into armored light. Which was already nerfed.


For your second list there is some to nit pick with here.:

~Light "spam" will exist for lower levels forever. Just as a spam of anything else. Mix ups will land just as often against them as light spam would. So using light spam in comparison to changing game direction doesn't really pan out.

~The game has no true 50/50's. And if it was reactable it wouldn't be a 50/50. So saying unreactable 50/50 is redundant.

~I half agree. A lot of people have a firm stance against HA from neutral. I myself think it's fine as long as it's done correctly. Jormungandr's heavy openers are just that. they're 800ms so easy as pie to react block. And the armor itself comes in 400ms into the attack. meaning he's trading on a read and can't trade with heavies from neutral unless said heavy is really slow or very poorly mistimed. The only other egregious example of HA in the game is charge heavies whom get HA the moment they let the charged heavy fly. That likely will need to be removed and only give them HA once the attack is unblockable or uncharged and committed to.

~This sort of falls into the spam point I already talked about. But to further comment on this specifically Pretty much every bash in the game atm is pretty fair with what can and can't punish it. The few examples I can think of are Jormungandr's bashes and black prior's chained bash. And maybe one for conq.

Jorge's neutral bash is extremely reactable to avoid and it's also able to be punished on reaction via a GB and a dodge attack. It really should only be punishable by a dodge attack on reaction. His in combo punch can only be reaction punished by dodge attacks. but at least considering where the move sits right now that shouldn't be possible at all.
BP's chained bash on the other hand is immensely bad and should be punishable on reaction to a dodge attack considering the mix up that you have mid chain wise.

Many people want all bashes to be punishable with a GB on reaction. The problem is if you do that you basically stifle offense as a whole with bashes and thus ruin any mix up potential to be had.

[CRIMS0NM0NKEY]

I tried to delete this post after I realized the Ken I faced was OOL teching. I believe Ken did get a free light in prerework or original but I digress.
Regardless,
As for the free light upon a successful light hit. That is BS as it bypasses the most basic concepts of the game.

It like the lawbringers skewer (whatever it's called) the indicator says to block left to avoid it. Yea I get how to avoid it now but what is point of having an indicator if it lies to you?

I get why new comers get frustrated by this game. You actually have to figure out the truth of the game mechanics instead of them being intuitive to game play.