1. #21
    Well, there's your problem...you want to do GTA stuff in a game that isn't GTA. Not every open-world game has to be played like GTA, you know. I mean, in theory, you could still do stupid stuff, just that much like real life, if you do stupid stuff you run the risk of consequences.
    Share this post

  2. #22
    Originally Posted by secretzrus Go to original post
    Well, there's your problem...you want to do GTA stuff in a game that isn't GTA.
    Umm...no I don't. I'm trying to explain to the community rep that Permadeath is great but they can't forget that this is still a game and it's meant to be fun. While Permadeath can be a fun new addition and game mechanic, it can also limit what Ubisoft is ultimately trying to create with WDL: replayability.

    And furthermore, I already said that I'm not the type of player to RnG or do stupid stuff during missions and objectives, but that doesn't mean other players wouldn't want to take a crack at that. In a way, this Permadeath system restricts them from doing that, and an open-world sandbox game, like the Watch_Dogs series, shouldn't ever do that. Neither should GTA, neither should nay honestly. That's what makes sandbox open worlds...UNIQUE, DANGIT!

    Originally Posted by secretzrus Go to original post
    Not every open-world game has to be played like GTA, you know. I mean, in theory, you could still do stupid stuff, just that much like real life, if you do stupid stuff you run the risk of consequences.
    No one, including I, said it had to.

    Okay, let's say you want to get into a war with Albion, so you got to their HQ/restricted area and just start shooting up the place. At this point, you suffer enough damage that you are given the option to surrender or to keep going. Your bloodlust unquenched, you push on. Your bad luck comes back to haunt you as you watch your character take a fatal shot, ending his killing spree. You have now just lost your character permanently, but all you wanted to do was blow off some steam after a hard day at work/school/job. Are you getting my point?

    We're gamers. We do stupid stuff. It's part of our nature. We're inquisitive, curious creatures. How else would players have figured out that you could traverse rooftops via blowing up a gas mane while on top of it with a car? Or that antagonizing an NPC to hit another would cause a hilarious scene ending with the NPC getting arrested? If you want a game to be replayable, there can't be many restrictions. While Permadeath is an innovative new feature that adds new strategies and thinking to how we approach scenarios now, it also has potential to create the opposite effect, and this is why it may become a DEAL BREAKER for me if it turns out to have the opposite effect.
    Share this post

  3. #23
    Originally Posted by LegendOfGta Go to original post
    Umm...no I don't. I'm trying to explain to the community rep that Permadeath is great but they can't forget that this is still a game and it's meant to be fun. While Permadeath can be a fun new addition and game mechanic, it can also limit what Ubisoft is ultimately trying to create with WDL: replayability.

    And furthermore, I already said that I'm not the type of player to RnG or do stupid stuff during missions and objectives, but that doesn't mean other players wouldn't want to take a crack at that. In a way, this Permadeath system restricts them from doing that, and an open-world sandbox game, like the Watch_Dogs series, shouldn't ever do that. Neither should GTA, neither should nay honestly. That's what makes sandbox open worlds...UNIQUE, DANGIT!
    To be fair, replayability isn't a problem with two of the biggest permadeath games I know of, the X-com games and the State of Decay games. People log dozens and even hundreds of hours into those games, even with the threat of permadeath looming over their characters. People just know that if they want to do stupid stuff, those aren't the games for them unless they don't mind losing a character or two. Not every game needs the standard safety net of being able to reload a save.


    Originally Posted by LegendOfGta Go to original post
    No one, including I, said it had to.

    Okay, let's say you want to get into a war with Albion, so you got to their HQ/restricted area and just start shooting up the place. At this point, you suffer enough damage that you are given the option to surrender or to keep going. Your bloodlust unquenched, you push on. Your bad luck comes back to haunt you as you watch your character take a fatal shot, ending his killing spree. You have now just lost your character permanently, but all you wanted to do was blow off some steam after a hard day at work/school/job. Are you getting my point?

    We're gamers. We do stupid stuff. It's part of our nature. We're inquisitive, curious creatures. How else would players have figured out that you could traverse rooftops via blowing up a gas mane while on top of it with a car? Or that antagonizing an NPC to hit another would cause a hilarious scene ending with the NPC getting arrested? If you want a game to be replayable, there can't be many restrictions. While Permadeath is an innovative new feature that adds new strategies and thinking to how we approach scenarios now, it also has potential to create the opposite effect, and this is why it may become a DEAL BREAKER for me if it turns out to have the opposite effect.
    OK, well A) I wouldn't do something like that because that would be pretty dumb when I know it's a permadeath game and B) If I just wanted to blow off steam, that's what GTA is for. And as I doubt they're going to get rid of the permadeath feature since they seem to be rather fond of it and have made a big deal about it, I guess either you'll learn to work around it, hope someone finds a way to cheat it or come to the conclusion that maybe this isn't the game for you.
    Share this post

  4. #24
    Originally Posted by secretzrus Go to original post
    To be fair, replayability isn't a problem with two of the biggest permadeath games I know of, the X-com games and the State of Decay games. People log dozens and even hundreds of hours into those games, even with the threat of permadeath looming over their characters. People just know that if they want to do stupid stuff, those aren't the games for them unless they don't mind losing a character or two. Not every game needs the standard safety net of being able to reload a save.
    Never played either of those. Frankly, open sandbox games are supposed to be fun and allow you to do whatever you want. The world is the sandbox; the player, feature, and game mechanics are the sand. All you need to do is play in the sandbox with the sand how you want to. This is what a sandbox game is and this is what it should be. Permadeath, IMO, adds a restriction that goes against the philosophy of a sandbox game!



    Originally Posted by secretzrus Go to original post
    OK, well A) I wouldn't do something like that because that would be pretty dumb when I know it's a permadeath game and B) If I just wanted to blow off steam, that's what GTA is for. And as I doubt they're going to get rid of the permadeath feature since they seem to be rather fond of it and have made a big deal about it, I guess either you'll learn to work around it, hope someone finds a way to cheat it or come to the conclusion that maybe this isn't the game for you.
    Were you not listening? Gamers tend to like to do dumb sh*t. That's half of the videos on YT and Twitch...

    Why is GTA your go to? WD can very well be compared to GTA, at least the first two. Most of what you could accomplish in GTA you could accomplish in both WD and WD2. And the point was that if you want to just play a game after a long day at work or school, you could. With Permadeath, now there's even more of a reason to detract from your own playstyle and adhere to even more rules. Video games, I remind you, were made to escape reality and its numerous rules and regulations.

    Seeing as this is my first Permadeath game, I'll happily make a local save backup (IDC if you call me scum for doing it) then I'll explore it in full detail. It's just like backing up a HDD that's about to die. This way I can preserve my important characters and still play the game the way I want to, consequences and all!

    Watch Dogs is and always will be a franchise that I'm interested in playing. If you knew me IRL you'd know I'm highly selective of which games I play, take interest in or even decide to buy. Watch Dogs fits that mold and frankly, I like the series, so I will find a way to make it work in my favor. And please stop with "well maybe this game isn't for you" excuse. It's just as bad as "if you want A, then go play a game that has A; don't bring A into a game that has B" argument. These are just straw hat arguments that are nonsense.
    Share this post

  5. #25
    Originally Posted by LegendOfGta Go to original post
    Never played either of those. Frankly, open sandbox games are supposed to be fun and allow you to do whatever you want. The world is the sandbox; the player, feature, and game mechanics are the sand. All you need to do is play in the sandbox with the sand how you want to. This is what a sandbox game is and this is what it should be. Permadeath, IMO, adds a restriction that goes against the philosophy of a sandbox game!
    Hmmm...the question is, is this an open world game or a sandbox game? My money is on open world, which means while you're free to explore and do almost anything you want, there are rules and there are consequences. A sandbox game is more like No Man's Sky or Minecraft or Subnatica; they give you the sandbox, they give you access to the tools and tell you to go nuts. The Watch Dogs games were never like that, and this won't be, either.


    Originally Posted by LegendOfGta Go to original post
    Were you not listening? Gamers tend to like to do dumb sh*t. That's half of the videos on YT and Twitch...
    Some gamers do stupid ****...then there are those that I usually wind up playing with if I do random matching in online multiplayer that don't put up with people doing stupid ****. And of course they do stupid stuff on Youtube...streamers get more views watching someone bungle through a game and act a fool while doing it compared to those that are laser-focused, no-nonsense players. Everyone loves a clown...unless it's Gacy or Pennywise.

    Originally Posted by LegendOfGta Go to original post
    Why is GTA your go to? WD can very well be compared to GTA, at least the first two. Most of what you could accomplish in GTA you could accomplish in both WD and WD2. And the point was that if you want to just play a game after a long day at work or school, you could. With Permadeath, now there's even more of a reason to detract from your own playstyle and adhere to even more rules. Video games, I remind you, were made to escape reality and its numerous rules and regulations.
    GTA is probably my goto because that's usually everyone's goto for the kind of open-world senseless mayhem we're discussing. Have you ever experienced the bullet filled asylum that is GTA Online? That's where people who want to just go on mindless killing sprees to blow off steam...it is the game series most famous for it, after all.

    Originally Posted by LegendOfGta Go to original post
    Seeing as this is my first Permadeath game, I'll happily make a local save backup (IDC if you call me scum for doing it) then I'll explore it in full detail. It's just like backing up a HDD that's about to die. This way I can preserve my important characters and still play the game the way I want to, consequences and all!
    You misunderstood, my friend...I'm not calling you "scum"...that's what the method is generally called. Methods like turning the game off before a game can register the death and starting the game back at the last save with the character still alive (a method some used in the State of Decay games on the consoles) are called "save-s*******". I make no judgment on anyone wanting to save a favorite character...

    Originally Posted by LegendOfGta Go to original post
    Watch Dogs is and always will be a franchise that I'm interested in playing. If you knew me IRL you'd know I'm highly selective of which games I play, take interest in or even decide to buy. Watch Dogs fits that mold and frankly, I like the series, so I will find a way to make it work in my favor. And please stop with "well maybe this game isn't for you" excuse. It's just as bad as "if you want A, then go play a game that has A; don't bring A into a game that has B" argument. These are just straw hat arguments that are nonsense.
    Believe me, I hate the "maybe this game isn't for you" line as well, and truly wrestled with saying it, and to be honest, it didn't feel right. That being said...if the permadeath mechanic is a deal-breaker for you, and you truly can't enjoy the game with it in place, then I suppose it's up to you to weigh all the positives against that one big negative and decide if that game is for you.

    I've had to do that with a couple of high profile games that on paper sound like games I would love, but one big thing in each had the potential to ruin it for me. For Cyberpunk 2077, it was the decision to do the majority of cutscenes in first-person instead of third, thereby really making the character creator CDPR were bragging about seem pointless, and Ghost Recon Breakpoint and their decision to require an online connection for solo play. In the end, after weighing pros and cons for both to determine if I could still justify wanting the game to myself, I decided to wait till Cyberpunk 2077 goes on a deep deep sale and to skip Breakpoint all together.

    I'm just saying; if the permadeath is that big of a deal for you and Ubisoft Toronto is clever enough to prevent save-s*******, you may have to make that kind of decision for yourself about this game. Then again, you could always recruit cannon fodder and have at it...I plan on recruiting an expendable or two, just in case.
    Share this post

  6. #26
    Yeah, really interesting features that I haven't seen before. Not only permadeath like roguelikes but also randomly dying for extra risky, high reward play.
    Share this post