The Mission at the Chemical Institute... OMG how many thugs are there? | Forums

[venomgun1]

Ok. I’m impressed. I can only circle the building once before my vehicle is destroyed, then I really need to bail way down the driveway or I’ll be surrounded and dead in short order.

How did you do it (in more detail please!)

One of my challenges is I’ve not fully developed my AI Team skills. They go down fairly quickly in situations where they are outnumbered.

This is a challenge!

Here's the video of my run. Got downed only once by last surviving enemy after the mission was completed. This is just the part at the chemical institute building. First part (hacking the laptop for location) wasn't recorded and even if it was, doing it loud would have been a slideshow (2-7 fps). My PC is almost 6 years old.

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Multiple attempts later, I still can't replicate the bug with an old character, regardless of mission completion order, fast travel, downs or multiple restarts.
Gonna attempt to do it in ghost mode next. First doing "Operation Archangel" and then "Chemical trail". Extreme with no skills, HUD or rebel spotting is gonna hurt a bit. Might take some time. Or it will happen on a first run.

[venomgun1]

Nope. Just did it in ghost mode. "Operation Archangel", then "Chemical trail". "Chemical trail" spawned normal/expected amount of enemies. Extreme, no skills, no upgrades, with HUD, rebel spotting at level 2.

Noteworthy stuff:
- ghost mode character I used for this was created shortly before latest (mercenaries) update.
- I didn't pick up any major intel in Libertad prior to doing "Operation Archangel", if it makes any difference. This effectively means that only one of these missions was available at a time.
- no other missions or side jobs were done between these 2
- first playthrough on both mission, no mission replay tests yet
- since this is ghost mode, friendly fire was on; team AI was hurt and revived; Caveira and Dengoso were never harmed or accidentally/intentionally blown up
- quit to desktop between every Archangel part (before defending the camp, between the camp and apartment building, between apartment and first breach) and quit to desktop between 2 parts of "Chemical trail"
- fast travel was used, downs happened (no more then 1, no skills for it anyway)
- no "target too far, advance to the target" popups on screen. Good pathfinding. NPC friend
- no stuck Twitch or missing Twitch in apartment building bugs. Twitch friend.

My working theories:
- it could be a a bug that only affects mission replays, but not first runs. I can still make more tests with the same character to confirm.
- maybe it makes a difference if both missions are available on the map, prior to doing any of them. Someone could collect major intel first, in order to have both missions available at the same time and then do the test run.

[MikeWeeks]

Nope. Just did it in ghost mode. "Operation Archangel", then "Chemical trail". "Chemical trail" spawned normal/expected amount of enemies. Extreme, no skills, no upgrades, with HUD, rebel spotting at level 2.

Noteworthy stuff:
- ghost mode character I used for this was created shortly before latest (mercenaries) update.
- I didn't pick up any major intel in Libertad prior to doing "Operation Archangel", if it makes any difference. This effectively means that only one of these missions was available at a time.
- no other missions or side jobs were done between these 2
- first playthrough on both mission, no mission replay tests yet
- since this is ghost mode, friendly fire was on; team AI was hurt and revived; Caveira and Dengoso were never harmed or accidentally/intentionally blown up
- quit to desktop between every Archangel part (before defending the camp, between the camp and apartment building, between apartment and first breach) and quit to desktop between 2 parts of "Chemical trail"
- fast travel was used, downs happened (no more then 1, no skills for it anyway)
- no "target too far, advance to the target" popups on screen. Good pathfinding. NPC friend
- no stuck Twitch or missing Twitch in apartment building bugs. Twitch friend.

My working theories:
- it could be a a bug that only affects mission replays, but not first runs. I can still make more tests with the same character to confirm.
- maybe it makes a difference if both missions are available on the map, prior to doing any of them. Someone could collect major intel first, in order to have both missions available at the same time and then do the test run.

I'm not sure why a Ghost Mode character was used to test what VirtualRain encountered. Interesting test nonetheless that would show the glitch/bug isn't part of GM.

However VirtualRain was doing a first run with a campaign character, while we were doing mission re-plays of a main character. Or was a GM character being used for a re-play?

Everything to now indicates to me that the issue is with a first-run character using a campaign character doing Archangel first, followed by Chemical Trail. That's why I'm confused by the first working theory. In addition VR posted the glitch/bug continues when he attempted a re-play of Chemical Trail after his first-run experience.

[CrockfordCK]

My two cents: I've been playing this game since the beginning, pretty sure you guys have been too. I know you can stack both missions to force a large amount of enemies to spawn, but I can also say I've experienced the super high count of enemies on the Chemical Trail mission prior to the release of any of the special operations. My task force and I would do "homemade" missions that involved the chemical institute specifically because the high amount of enemies. We always thought the 'low count' was a bug. But because this was all prior to any Spec Ops whatever bug is causing this may be triggered by Archangel, that it also means that Archangel isn't required for the bug.

[venomgun1]

Because I already tested my campaign characters. New and old. Same results, no SB infestation.
Since there wasn't much else to try, I loaded my only disposable ghost mode character with some progress in side missions and other provinces. Caimanes and Libertad were completely unexplored though, so it was good for a quick test. Also, I wanted to do a first run, to confirm that the bug doesn't happen on first runs.

CrockfordCK has a point. "Chemical trail" mission used to spawn a lot more enemies and it did that long before SO2. I played since early July 2017, but don't remember when was this changed, why or if at all, since I didn't play regularly prior to SO2. There was little to no incentive to play the game religiously back then Maybe the mission was reworked because of the seasonal/weekly/daily challenges or to make Archangel slightly different/harder or simply because it was one of those boring sync shot missions.

The point is, "Chemical trail" should have reduced number of enemies. Why it doesn't? Still unclear, but this has been a productive thread so far. We all learned something new or remembered ghosts of the past (no pun intended).

[MikeWeeks]

Understand why a GM test. That the issue isn't consistent is quite clear.

I came onboard in June 2018 and so when SO2 dropped in July hadn't yet gotten to Libertad. Thus my experience(s) with the Chemical Trails NPC head-count has always been the same.

VirturalRain was doing a first run the other night with his character, on PS4. IIRC he came aboard around the same time period as I did.

[Virtual-Chris]

Understand why a GM test. That the issue isn't consistent is quite clear.

I came onboard in June 2018 and so when SO2 dropped in July hadn't yet gotten to Libertad. Thus my experience(s) with the Chemical Trails NPC head-count has always been the same.

VirturalRain was doing a first run the other night with his character, on PS4. IIRC he came aboard around the same time period as I did.

Yeah that’s exactly right.

Of course if I had any idea what triggered this situation, I would add more detail... but Mike... you have a good understanding of my situation and sequence here. If anyone can replicate this it would probably be your current character.

While it’s certainly intense fighting that many Cartel, tonight I was off to Inca Camina and stopped by that large base there. Sheesh... It is equally difficult without being bugged if you try to play it loud. There are a ton of guys, a mortar, snipers all over, a drone jammer and reinforcements come quickly and the terrain is all open making it a nightmare with Unidad helicopters flying over every 5 minutes. And then there’s the frequent train that rolls through there which is almost guaranteed to wipe out your AI Team

[MikeWeeks]

Yeah that’s exactly right.

Of course if I had any idea what triggered this situation, I would add more detail... but Mike... you have a good understanding of my situation and sequence here. If anyone can replicate this it would probably be your current character.

While it’s certainly intense fighting that many Cartel, tonight I was off to Inca Camina and stopped by that large base there. Sheesh... It is equally difficult without being bugged if you try to play it loud. There are a ton of guys, a mortar, snipers all over, a drone jammer and reinforcements come quickly and the terrain is all open making it a nightmare with Unidad helicopters flying over every 5 minutes. And then there’s the frequent train that rolls through there which is almost guaranteed to wipe out your AI Team

Yeah, I've got a new character right now which can go do the sequence of Archangel first, in solo, followed by Chemical Trail. Can either make it one continuous session, or not (as in your sequence of two separate sessions). Will make a backup save naturally at the jumping off point ...

One giveaway right off the top is the AI telling you that there are tangos in the building even if you have no rebel spotting.

That Inca Camina outpost certainly lends itself to some challenges; especially going in loud "and proud"!!

[MikeWeeks]

FWIW: could not duplicate VirtualRain's run (on PS4) with my new (on PC) campaign character (on Extreme/no HUD/limited skills). All was normal for the missions Archangel, followed by Chemical Trail. Did the latter following a complete game break, as OP had done. So an interesting mystery as to how the glitch/bug comes about.

[Virtual-Chris]

FWIW: could not duplicate VirtualRain's run (on PS4) with my new (on PC) campaign character (on Extreme/no HUD/limited skills). All was normal for the missions Archangel, followed by Chemical Trail. Did the latter following a complete game break, as OP had done. So an interesting mystery as to how the glitch/bug comes about.

Strange. Unfortunately, I don't have any idea what might have triggered it.