Member
Breach is an awesome mode by design but awful in so many mechanics and completely unbalanced.
Defense has a strong advantage over attackers, attackers have multiple objectives to complete, while having to conserve their lives, and defense has near enough zero penalty for dying, and their only objective is to kill you or stop the ram.
Defense can push minions into the ram, no longer making it safe to defend as an attacker, if you have to deal with minions+players.
Heal point can be zoned out from the attackers so easily, typically the location is closer to the defenders, defenders have zero penalty in dying, so they can be unnecessarily aggressive, die, and keep coming back. (Unless the game is at 3rd stage)
Some maps have ballistas watching over a general area in front of the commander... Why though.
| I have contacted player support about glitches being abused in breach, I don't want to mention them so I don't cause any more attention for them to be abused |
Solutions:
.Put two very slim (hug the ram) health points on either side of the ram, that move along with it. Make these heal points heal less per tick than the main heal point, this would offer attackers sustain and survivability when pushing the ram.
.Cut off the ballistas line of sight to the commander zone completely and have it be more over the minion wave.
.Make it so if defenders take consecutive deaths over a short period of time (aka not playing obj or being aggressive just to take a life or two of the attackers and ignoring helping their team) have increased spawn delay after each one.
(This could be a problematic change and make the game a little more attacker strong, so I'm open to suggestions revolving around this, I just don't want defenders to be able to 4 stack by the ram or be able to freely run around with zero caution or threat)
Any other problems and solutions I'd love to hear from the community below, this mode isn't the most competitive but in design it's really fun and if these changes or some changes were made it could make for a new experience every time you play it.
Senior Member
Absolutely not.
Attackers have the advantage, since the points they capture remain their's. The number of respawn tickets is high enough.
Let me tell you why you think, that defenders have the advantage. Because you most likely aren't playing the objective. If you just hunt for players as an attacker in Breach, instead of capturing points, then it's completely clear where you got that opinion from.
Otherwise there is no way.
I know that very well from the PTS and the open test server, where all people not playing the objective, made the same claim.
In professional plays usually the attackers win more often.
Senior Member
I agree. Attackers definetely win more often, they have high respawn numbers, and very easy time of pushing the ram. The only times attackers really use is when they do not care about objectives and leave the ram. You can push it just by securing archers, or if you don't want to fight there, you can easily push the ram by guarding it. 3rd phase usually starts with at least 25 tickets to the attackers- considering their current alive players and the fact they all respawn on breaking, 30 times they have to die, while if they win a teamfight, they can basically win because the commander suffers tremendous damage. Being dedender is a lot harder.
If you can be shot by a ballista, you really deserve that shot. It takes a little attention only to avoid it.
Member
I would argue the main problem with breach isn’t attacker/defender balance. It’s that people don’t care about winning.
I play a lot of breach at a reasonably high level (I’m a long way from pro, but I am pretty close to a day one player). The game becomes un-fun when teams just gank or guard the heal zone. It’s a really ineffective tactic for actually winning, but for the attacking team to win they have to go through all the stages.
So me, as an attacker, will win the game, but spend 20-30 mins being ganked over and over. It’s boring, and if I want to leave I get a 30 min penalty. Really they just need to make the bots better and give massive rewards for winning – rewards so awesome that it is actually worth playing the objective.
I haven’t actually noticed much imbalance between the two sides in terms of winning. The tickets thing is a little odd though.
Member
Originally Posted by Goat_of_Vermund Go to original post
1. I talked about the ballista having view of the commander, not players.
2. I didn't mention many changes to the 3rd phase, that's probably the most balanced phase and actually makes defenders care about their life.
3. It's the defenders job to basically have a field day with the attackers while they play obj, you have to focus on more things as an attacker way more than a defender.
4. Idk how you could even say defense is harder when ziplines take you throughout the map, you start with minion control, group up with your team and hug ram with minions, gank the attackers trying to do the obj with your minions on it, etc.
5. I doubt it matters, but Im in matches with people around 150rep on PS4, not once have I played for kills as an attacker. And I consistently see defense winning more often.
Not to mention, revenge is awful and provides little to nothing other than a temp. Small health boost, getting ganked as an attacker and surviving is rare, then defense can call out your low and going to heal if you did survive, etc etc.
It's undisputable that attackers have more to focus on.
Senior Member
The defenders have to care about everything, while mistakes on the attacker side costs tickets, time and ram hp, losing a fight costs just as dearly for the defenders. If a flag is put on the ram, that basically means it is unlikely that it will be destroyed, making the defenders abandon tactics around it's hp. If zhe gate is shielded, it will mean it stays up for plus 30 seconds. If you lose an archerpoint, that means it's permanently lost, and the ram will be pushed on it's own by attacker minions for the time it is cowered. Executions are hard to get due to the pikemen, meaning you might have to abandon the body, who will be revived in turn, making your efforts meaningless. And you have to stall, if you enter phase 3 with the attackers having more than 15 tickets, you lost, even if they just stupidly rush in to deal damage every time. If you leave the commander unguarded for a respawn time, he loses most of his hp, even to one player. The cauldron can be lost, and attacker minions can effectively block it's usage for the rest of the phase. The ballista having vew on the commander is also an advantage to the attackers, defenders might use it to kill people fighting the commander, but it is quite unreliable, while a source of constant damage must be dealt with all the time.
I am around that rep on pc, if some attackers threaten the archerpoints (or flank it to kill reinforcement minions arriving), while some others push the ram or secure healing zones and the banner, the defenders must break up too to counter.
Member
My man I understand you, and I understand the mechanics of the game mode, everything you said for the defenders, flip that and that's also what the attackers have to accomplish, but they have a restraint on spawns. On top of a positional disadvantage, just by mad design and layout.Originally Posted by Goat_of_Vermund Go to original post
Banned
Member
I dont think the sides are completely unbalanced, maybe one does have an advantage. I do agree with other posters that attackers seem to win more often than not. Especially when the last gate opens, then they seem to win almost always?
Tho say its crazy how one sided matches can get sometimes, including either side as the dominating one. I wish there was some sorta support or help to the crushed losing side when it gets that bad. Cant really think of any ideas atm. Maybe getting more minions in the heavily losing side's waves, say if the they can make the game somehow tell the defense is getting completely wrecked, more spearmen, maybe officers or just some sorta additonal support starts spawning with the blue waves. Maybe a completely new unit, like a minion holding that healing banner some characters have as 4th feat slooowly healing in an area around it. Or if the ram has less than 1/3 hp after the first gate has opened, allow attackers be to fix it somehow by one health bar (or until certain max allowed hp) during the first x minutes after breaking the gate. Perhaps by fetching some resources from around the map or by one-two people having to stand next to the ram and hold interract button which gets them to play fixing animation and so on.
Or maybe let defenders (if attackers hold all archer points or missing just cauldron and too well overall) somehow manually send a sneaky sperman/officer to clear out a captured archer point and then keep killing enemy archers from doing their thing or stopping them from spawning until some attacker shows up to kill the spearman. Its the one thing that kinda sucks about defending, when enemy gets archer points, thats it, and they dont ever have to worry about it anymore. Because defense cant take it back nor any blue minions venture there anymore.
I liked a certain idea here suggested aswell, like when the ram is reaaally low health, say two bars but still has half way to move, a healing area appears around it, moving with the ram, healing players/minions but slower than the normal healing spot. Or have the healing banner minion mentioned earlier show up and walk along it.
I also think it would be cool little thing if spear minions had player emblems on their shields or their backs.
I like the mode, play it often enough when i do play the game. But when the ultra-one sided games happen, it just not nice, not even that fun when youre the loser and i dont feel that great or satisfied when the opponents get completely crushed either.
