Vortiger change idea | Forums

[JKnu_teCH]

Jorg in dominion is like orochi lately, when he sees more than 1 enemy coming towards him they run for their life ), he ain't to good of a runner also. They travel in packs, if one get lost then there is our favorite victim )

[JKnu_teCH]

He can delay his bash. Bulwark does not need a buff. Vortiger needs a recovery nerf on his bashes just like Conq to make his bash punishable. Nearly every Vortiger I fight just spams shield bash lol. He does not need any more stamina. Rest is fine.

To my knowledge even if you delay the bash you still can avoid on one timing, so delayd or not doesn't do anything unlike conq bash. This is what was trying to say, my bad still learning eng. He has allready received a nerf to his neutral bash in form of longer recovery if I'm not mistaken, and both conq and BP neutral bash can be teched if that what is called buffering a light to deal with eventual gb.So IMO bp bash is easier to deal than conq correct me if I'm wrong.

[JKnu_teCH]

It is wrong Conq has slower recovery bash than BP. Its a lot harder to gb a BP than a Conq after he bashes. Plus BP deals more damage than an overall Conq and can flip the bash lel

Are we comparing the neutral bashes or the 2 chars? It's true that BP miss recovery is 600 and conq 700, not a lot harder to punish but slightly harder, however neutral forward bash of conq is better as it can be delayed and a better tracking. I just can reaction dodge BP one, with conq i have to predict it, if is buffered, delayed or just a gb.

[TOCKSYK]

Are we comparing the neutral bashes or the 2 chars? It's true that BP miss recovery is 600 and conq 700, not a lot harder to punish but slightly harder, however neutral forward bash of conq is better as it can be delayed and a better tracking. I just can reaction dodge BP one, with conq i have to predict it, if is buffered, delayed or just a gb.

the two characters are bashes themselves lol. No, but really. They should increase the recovery time on BP neutral and combo bash. Conq bash is better as a bash, tho Vortiger's bash is unpunishable by reaction and it does more damage on the follow up. The rest of the kit is okay, except that one bash that everyone uses until the character loses flavor

[Knight_Raime]

As someone who quite frequently plays him I can't say i agree with any points being made. Potentially you're approaching him wrong.
His neutral heavies entirely exist for the soft feint bash it has. And you really only whip that out on someone who's conditioned into back dodging.
His in combo heavies exist as target swap material and hitting people who are conditioned into side dodging.

Bullwark flip is a situational punish. You don't use it every chance you could get it. You use it when you're going to be hit with a variety of different attacks. Such as bashes and unblockables. Or unblockables/bashes and normal attacks. Essentially you use it when a parry wouldn't be a safe option to survive. The other instance you'd use it in is if someone pops revenge and is hell bent on hitting you with spammed attacks. Especially from external situations. As the flip takes time which shortens the time they actually get to use revenge. Beyond this bullwark is much more used to cut recoveries short, threaten a flip with from blocking externally, and most importantly a natural combo/pressure extender with bullwark slash.

Your approach with Black prior filters into a few different strats:

~If you're ganking externally you constantly bait with bullwark slash feints to hopefully cause them to mess up so an ally gets a parry or GB. And should your ally get confirmed damage you can potentially sneak your slash in for extra damage.

~If you're being ganked by 2 people or just low health with one person you want to space as often as possible while in bullwark to use your heal feat. this will force the opponent to be some what predictable in trying to punish you.

~If you're being the aggresser in a single pick fight you can do the dodge into bash/zone mix up remembering to mix up your delays on your forward bash. If you ever manage to land a neutral light you mix up between undodgable heavy and bash. On a more patient individual you can choose to mix between bullwark slash and undodgable heavy as well. This mix up has slightly less pressure due to how slow the unblockable attack is. But if it does land it's a combo starter. Which allows you to follow up with either a light or an undodgable heavy.


~In a team fight you primarily try to initiate with your bullwark slash through feints or landing it. Avoiding bashes to avoid giving as much as possible. Really only using them to try and finish someone off who's one hit. Anytime you land an attack you'll want to target swap your attack immediately. If that lands blocked or not since it's a heavy you can fast flow back into bullwark to do another slash. You basically keep doing this mixed with feints to have a pretty solid pressure psuedo infinite combo.


The biggest advice I can give you is to remember that bullwark serves as a natural combo extender with it's slash attack. That and don't be over eager with flips.

[JKnu_teCH]

the two characters are bashes themselves lol. No, but really. They should increase the recovery time on BP neutral and combo bash. Conq bash is better as a bash, tho Vortiger's bash is unpunishable by reaction and it does more damage on the follow up. The rest of the kit is okay, except that one bash that everyone uses until the character loses flavor

I may be biased here bcs i like BP more than conq but if we supposedly make this changes wouldn't make BP like... Conq with fewer option select and better damage, overall a weaker conq.His chained bash has the same problem jorg has, late block or guard switch make the bash undodgeable and i hope we will get a fix in near future. If we are to increase recovery on missed neutral bash to be like conq then why shouldn't make the bash like conq like you said he has a better bash,it even beats other bashes like warden fully charged ones. Anyway we are talking in vain here, no ideea or change will make it into the game even if it's good enough, it's more like a secondary forum.I do enjoy speaking here as it's not full of meme's and has less toxic members than reddit. All i said is just my perspective and will for sure differ from yours, i have 15 reps with BP and 5 with conq trying to get him to 8.I play on pc but if it's 1v1 i prefer conq, if x vs x BP is better than conq for my playstyle as i don't really like clearing minions lane all the match.

[darksavior1977]

Almost everything except the issue with the heavies was better before he got nerfed. He now eats up a bucket of stamina, doesn't do as much damage, and they slowed down how his bulwark stance works. It was too much nerf. On the issue of his heavies, I wish he didn't swing so wide or so slow on the side heavies. He mostly is hitting a wall or getting parried. Also, for as massive a sweep as it is, his minion clear isn't very good. I say this as someone who used to love Vortiger, and I still very much like the idea, but then Ubi responded to pressure from whiners and neutered him.

[Knight_Raime]

Almost everything except the issue with the heavies was better before he got nerfed. He now eats up a bucket of stamina, doesn't do as much damage, and they slowed down how his bulwark stance works. It was too much nerf. On the issue of his heavies, I wish he didn't swing so wide or so slow on the side heavies. He mostly is hitting a wall or getting parried. Also, for as massive a sweep as it is, his minion clear isn't very good. I say this as someone who used to love Vortiger, and I still very much like the idea, but then Ubi responded to pressure from whiners and neutered him.

I can 100% promise you that unless you were a pc player who played in skrim MM the nerfs he took barely effected his gameplay.

The nerf to bullwark was to his exit time not his entry time. So it's still snappy as hell to use. You just can't leave bullwark on reaction to a feint smoke to CGB.
The nerf to his forward bash recovery only effected his stance window. You still have to punish is bash on a read for a GB just like before. You can still easily bait reaction dodge attacks for a parry too. It just means people who constantly light bash light or spam bash from neutral can now actually be punished.

Black prior never had super strong minion clear like say nobushi. But the hitboxes on his lights and heavy finishers are still very respectable. And because he can flow into bullwark after finishers he can continue to clear mid with UB heavy and undodgable heavy. So again. it's not top tier clear. But it's better than most. Ubi made very sensible nerfs that were targeted rather than over nerfs like they've done in the past (ex shinobi launch kick and valk launch sweep being killed.)

Despite how much these nerfs effected top players Prior is still an A plus hero according to them down from S tier. So what you're saying is utter bull. And if your gameplay suffered that much from the nerfs you likely played him wrong or cheesed with him and can't anymore.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

His minion clear is actually great:

Heavy (left)- Bulwark slash-Heavy (left) [repeat until all dead or near exhaustion]

[CRIMS0NM0NKEY]

It sounds like alot of people think he's fine. I'll take some of the advise people left and thanks! Ive used him alot these past few days. I usually play shugoki and I feel like I'm putting in more work with BP. I mean his zone is trash. I forget it's name but when you feint a heavy to bash and he goes super far... Well why doesnt that confirm a heavy? His knockdown light heavy is sooo tempromental. Like the other person said you are constantly hitting walls.