1. #1
    Merphee's Avatar Senior Member
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    Nov 2016

    What happens next?

    Disclaimer: it is possible that you may not agree with anything that this OP will contain. In fact, you may even hate this entire thread. After all, this is just the opinion of one player, and even so, some things here are not my own ideas, but ideas of the community. However, much like my past threads, this thread is an attempt at compiling a bunch of suggestions into one singular thread, overviewing issues and possible solutions. I am not the only one who could be making these huge threads, but it is clear that since lengthy threads like this rarely appear, making them may not be worth it. But hey, one more shot shouldn't hurt, right?

    Also, understand that these types of threads take days to write up, while I also have personal things to do, so by the time I click "Submit New Thread", it would have been days after I started typing. I started typing this thread a couple hours after the SOTG on Wednesday, US east coast time.

    Mods, I have posted this in general discussion to get the most amount of possible eyes and the most amount of possible replies to generate a discussion, that way you and the developers can gauge whether or not these are changes / additions that multiple people would like to have in the game. I will eventually post this on Reddit for the same purpose, as well as in the Suggestion and Feedback forum.

    To begin, take a listen to a segment by Chris on the recent state of the game.

    "What happens next?"

    Good question, Hamish. Well... Agents, what happens next?

    Division 2 is no longer in its honeymoon phase. Frankly, it's beyond that. When this question was asked and Chris followed up with the answer, I immediately thought to myself "oh no, here I go again, thinking about suggestions." "Here I go again, thinking about taking time to write long threads."

    Once again have I thought to myself " well, maybe if I write in detail and make the posts long, it would be worthy of being forwarded the developers."

    So here is my final attempt at providing long detailed feedback for the developers to consider. After all, now is the time, right?

    To quote the reddit post and to give context to this thread, see this:

    Next Title Update Focuses on Player Feedback
    The next step is to start addressing things our players engage with us about regularly in an update before the next Episode. The dev team wants the community's input on what they feel needs to be improved, including these topics:

    Endgame RPG

    Gear Acquisition

    Inventory management

    How all these changes synergize in PvE and PvP

    These are just some high-level examples and should not limit your feedback.
    So, without further introduction, here is my contribution, my attempt at answering Hamish's question and fulfilling the survey of wanted feedback. Remember, I am just one player and if you are a player that is also reading this, you have the same ability to do what I have just done.

    Improving the RPG - Gear

    You know, Division isn't a game that has things like bartering, or dialogue choices that affect future scenarios, or an affinity system. Its RPG elements come down to gear, for the most part.

    I've posted this point across multiple threads, but I'll explain it a bit more here. Division 2 is currently in a spot where you can make a build, but there is no content in which would make that build feel useful. No content that makes you feel proud to have spent hours crafting a hyper-specific build in order to progress through content. Now, a build shouldn't be a requirement, because that would mean that you wouldn't be able to complete the activity at all without it. A build should be something that makes completing the activity easier. Still achievable without it, but much harder. Take a look at this picture:

    For those like me who have played the first Division, you'd know that this is the Dragon's Nest Incursion, more specifically, the final room. And, due to priming, I'm sure the first thing that popped into your head was Reclaimer, or even just the immune station.

    To those haven't played the first game, this part of the Incursion featured a room where the floor would literally turn into lava. In order to complete the part, a sequence of buttons had to be pressed simultaneously in order to progress an explosive tank hoisted above the head your agent forward towards the entity that was causing the floor to turn into fire, so that it would be blown up.

    To educate those who've not played Division 1, the Reclaimer gear set essentially made handling the fire easier because the gear set combined all variations a skill called Support Station. It provided status immunity, revived and healed you and your group members, gave you free ammo if you reloaded within the radius, and decreased skill cooldowns of everyone in the radius. Imagine a gear set that combined the Hive's healing, reviving and booster variations into one variation.

    The fire, a constant mechanic that had to be juggled along with fighting NPCs, persuaded the use of this gear set. This constant mechanic persuaded a role: a healer. It was possible to do this mission without Reclaimer, by avoiding the telegraphs, but you were better off with it than without it.

    Take a look at this picture:

    Again, veteran Division 1 players should know what needs to be done here. But, for those who haven't played the game, your objective here is to protect hostages, indicated by the orange shields, from a minigun on the opposite end of the room. If this minigun were to kill any of the hostages, it acts as a wipe mechanic, prompting a restart of the encounter.

    For the sake of simplicity, I will give you four skills to choose from: Pulse, Seeker Mine, Shield, Turret.

    Which do you think is the best skill that would allow you to protect the hostages?

    If you thought a shield, then you are correct, and there was a gear set in Division 1 that buffed your shield significantly, literally making it practically indestructible, while also allowing you to use an SMG with it. It is known as D3, or D3FNC. It absorbed damage and after absorbing a specific amount of a specific type of damage (physical or exotic damage), it provided everyone in your party a buff.

    The mechanics of content makes a build feel meaningful outside of general play. Division 2 does not feature content that makes hyper specific builds feel useful. Not even the high point of end game - the raid, something I, and probably many of you expected. I haven't tried it yet, but I could take my current flame turret build into the raid, thanks to the buff to skills, and have it camp only one of the NPC spawn doors of the Boomer fight.... or I could be yelled at and kicked out of the raid group for having only ~50% damage to elites, one offensive stat that's not even weapon damage (not my fault, RNG's fault), and moderate survivability.

    I'm sure there is PVE content down the pipeline, but, for example, if there is no content that features multiple rooms laced with traps and poison or oxidizer clouds spawning in intervals, with a generator that has to be started and defended in order for the group to open a door to another room, what would be the point of a 100% Hazard protection build? What would be the point of a Healer build?

    But, maybe the lack of builds is the point? If builds make content easier, why should mechanics be introduce that persuades them, if the developers want to create a sense of difficulty? For example, the raid only allowing 2 (or was it 3?) armor kits, down from 6 throughout the rest of the game. Seems controversial, and probably not at all the goal, but it's a thought to consider. Would hyper builds need to be apart of every new piece of PVE? No, not really, I would only say just apart of pinnacle end game content, because if I had to put together a specific build in order to complete a main mission on Hard, I'd likely be annoyed.

    And, I think that taking out incursions really hurt the need for builds. They were still pinnacle end game content with mechanics that had to be juggled and were always scaled for four players, no matter if you walked in solo. Division 2 doesn't have that "always scaled for four players" content with hazardous mechanics that persuades the use of a specific build, because it's clear that the raid doesn't do that with 8. (Well, it kind of does, but not in a good way)

    Gear and the mechanics of content combined influences a role. Without those mechanics, a build feels useless. If you create encounters with objectives that call to eliminate targets near or at the same time, you will only persuade DPS builds. But a DPS build cannot shoot fire out. Moving away from timed killings and instead introduce mechanics that can't be juggled or handled with DPS will open up build diversity and the RPG in the end game.

    Improving the RPG - Difficulty

    Difficulty is also an element that challenges the RPG. In a lot of games, an increase in difficulty means upping the health and damage of NPCs. This is a cheap cop out, in my opinion. However, some games actually change the features or skills of the NPCs. Division 2 already has this approach to difficulty in place, it just needs to be distributed and expressed more.

    Named bounty targets tend to have something different about them compared to normal NPCs. Before the game released, Drew (the AI guy) spoke about the many different "combinations" of assets that they could have. They may come with fire starter chem launchers, poisonous grenades, dish out mines, etc. A heavy enemy might suddenly weild a flame thrower. Some elite enemies, such as elite mechanics, may set up turrets that have shock rounds or explosive rounds that make you bleed, and I'm sure you are all aware of what Elite Black Tusk hounds are capable of. If more pinnacle end game activities featured these types of enemies, and these enemies are constant instead of randomized, you would then persuade the player to create builds that counter these elements simply out of pure anticipation. Much like the fire in Dragon's Nest.

    For example, I am sure you all are aware of this mechanic:

    A state in which an enemy suddenly becomes immune to damage, no matter the source. Once an enemy is in this state, our only option is to avoid the enemy until the buff is gone. But, why not make this an opportunity of teamwork, that calls for the flip flop of roles?

    When an enemy is in this state, they become immune to all damage. Instead, allow skills to still damage an enemy when they are in this state. With this, you've created this opportunity of a skill build to play a bigger part in the fight. Here's why.

    Weapon damage builds are obviously more convenient than a skill build, so naturally, a weapon build will have an easier time doing damage to an enemy. Before an enemy is in this state, a weapon build will be dishing out more DPS against them than what a skill build can do. But, when an enemy is in this state, gun builds would then take a back seat, while the skill build has their moment to do damage.

    Then, when this state is over, the weapon build will be back doing its damage. This mechanic can be used in more missions and be used to improve the RPG a bit if changes to its approach are made. Obviously nothing will change if you are playing solo and run into an enemy that can go into this state of invulnerability, but this is a much better solution to improving the RPG than by simply increasing health and damage.

    Improving the RPG - Main Attribute Trees

    Division has a system based on three main attributes: offensive, defensive, and utility. RPGs tend to feature skill trees that give players choices on how they want to build their character based on their class, and Division is kind of doing that with specializations, but it falls short because the passive talents aren't presented in a way that makes you choose between one or another. That choice is there when you choose which weapon types you'd want additional damage for with your specialization, but that's pretty much it.

    To add more depth to the RPG, Division 2 could introduce "skill" trees for each of the main attributes. These attribute trees would further support a player's preferred play style by providing choices when reaching a specific attribute amount requirement. Do you want to have a passive offensive "Encouragement" talent that buffs your team's headshot damage when you get x amount of consecutive headshot kills or grants additional stability and accuracy to the entire team if you stay in cover after 4 seconds? Do you want to take aggro when your shield is active or do more melee damage with it? Do, you want your Blinder Firefly to debuff enemy resistances when blinded or increase the damage they take from melee when blinded?

    Now, of course you wouldn't want the strongest aspects of these new attribute trees to be easily obtained to a point where a player can have three maxed out attribute trees active. This would come down to how many of a specific attribute a player has. If you have, say, 9 utility attributes, you have the option to choose between three additional talents, like a talent that provides your team crit chance when you use pulse , or a talent that provides additional hazard protection for the entire group for example.

    Or a talent that increases the range of a stationary skill. Or if you have, say, 7 defensive talents, you have the option to choose between a talent that heals you if you fall under a status and are at 100% hazard protection, or a talent that makes you immune to stagger or allows you to full sprint and reload. These are all just examples I came up with on the spot, but if you really want to beef up the RPG, you'll need a lot of these choices.

    Again, these are just examples, but I'm sure you get the point.

    Now, these talents could very well be gear set bonuses, but that comes down to the conversation about gear sets drowning out brand sets (high ends), something that happened in Division 1. Who would want that depends on who you ask, but these attribute trees would deepen the RPG significantly, without it being set behind RNG as normal gear talents, or having to wait for a gear set to be made. These attribute trees are the next best thing since Division doesn't want to be a game with locked "classes."

    Improving the RPG - Emphasizing Specializations

    A thread made by xcel30 asked when should we use the crossbow. It got me thinking, how often are specialization weapons used, in general, these days?

    Specializations come with fun additional weapons, but our normal weapons are just as good, if not better. Right now, I am using the Survivalist, but mainly for its incendiary grenade because I am maining a BTSU build. If I were to go Sharpshooter, I would be using it for the weapon handling buffs. I'd be using Nemesis more than I would be using the Tac-50. These may be extreme, but:

    There isn't content with objective targets placed outside of the range of normal weapons, that also have to be hit with a ton of damage.
    There isn't content with objective targets grouped together that all have to be killed at once, and are placed on the other side of a wall with a small hole that only an arrow can pass through.
    There isn't content that calls for a player to sustain bullets while also dishing out a ton of their own.

    Grenade launcher is an exception, because its best used for clearing grouped up, unprotected mobs and pelting bosses. These types of encounters happen throughout the entire game. So, I believe that it is the most used specialization weapon.

    The idea of emphasizing specializations and their weapons is to find ways that call for their use. Whether those ways have to be created, I don't think simply increasing numbers will be the end all be all solution.

    RNG - It's Insane!

    RNG is RNG, let's be honest, but an issue in Division 2 isn't really RNG per say. It's the sheer amount of elements attributed to RNG.

    Let's say that I want a Gila Chest piece that has + Total Armor, + Weapon Damage, + Skill Power, Unstoppable Force, and let's say that I need this chest to have a utility slot. This means that I will need the Iguana variant of the Gila chest. Let's say I go kill a non-Black Tusk named enemy who only drops one high end item upon death. Here is the RNG behind obtaining this exact chest on this drop:

    1 / 3 chance of that item being a gear piece (From either being gear, a weapon, or a gear mod)
    1 / 6 chance of that item being a chest piece (Based on the six gear slots)

    1 / 10 chance of that item being Gila (Based on how many brand sets have chest pieces)
    1 / 2 chance of that Gila item being Iguana (straight forward since there are only two gila chest variants)

    1 / 2 chance of that Gila chest dropping with an active talent slot
    1 / 5 chance of that talent being Unstoppable Force (based on the types of talent that drops on Gila chests - offensive and defensive)

    1 / 4 chance of the first attribute slot being total armor, since its first slot is always defensive (based the defensive stat possibilities being either health, total health, armor, total armor)
    1 / 9 chance of the second attribute slot being weapon damage or skill power (since the second slot can roll any attribute)
    1 / 9 chance of the third attribute slot being weapon damage or skill power (since the third slot can also roll any attribute)

    So, me getting this exact chest on drop is a 0.02% chance. I want to believe that my math is correct, dividing the item with the rolls that I want by the number of variables. If it's wrong, please correct me.

    There are 9 slots left up to RNG to fill in order for me to get this one chest piece. Think about that for a minute. You know the slot machine that rewards you if you get three 7s in a row? Imagine that same slot machine adding 6 more slots and then having to get nine 7s in a row before you win big. Course, this is an extreme example, and can't really be used for items such as Murakami knees, but this type of RNG makes it extremely difficult to get what you need for some types of gear. Recalibration doesn't help either.

    RNG - Remove variants from the game & generalize mod slots

    Variations are a glaring issue.

    Variants are inflation at this point. You've created a duplicate (or duplicates) item that have a minimal difference between it and the original item. One item may roll with an offensive common talent, but then a variation of this same item may roll with an active utility talent instead. Do you really think that's justifiable enough to have variations? These variations are just flooding the loot pool for no real practical reason, only worsening the RNG. Take a look at the above 5.11 backpacks. Before I explain, remember - gear mods have changed, so you don't have to worry about whether or not something is system or protocol.

    Now, with that out of the way, in terms of available attributes and mod slots, tell me the difference between an All Hazards Prime backpack and a Rush 12 backpack. Note, the last column is what type of mod slot is available on that piece.

    Nothing, but these items are exact duplicates and these duplicates are only inflating the loot pool. Get rid of them and make one variation. Take a look at the Badger backpack:

    Three variations with only the mod slot as the difference. In this case, these are unnecessary items that only exist to make RNG even harsh! I get tired of saying "Aww, it's the wrong mod slot." If you were to generalize the mod slots, to where a player can equip any attribute mod into the slot, you effectively nullify the need for variations, shrinking the loot pool and making the RNG somewhat better. You've just turned three items into one, while also giving the player choice!

    Here is that Gila scenario I told you about:

    As you can see, the only difference between the two is that Iguana rolls with a utility mod slot instead of an offensive mod slot. A duplicated item with only the mod slot as the difference. So again, imagine trying to get the perfect rolls on a Gila chest, except it comes with the wrong mod slot! Is this issue not clear enough? Take a look at Providence:

    The mod slot is the only difference! Variants are only inflating the loot pool over something so insignificant that can be mediated by simply generalizing mod slots, just how it was in Division 1.

    Maybe variations would make sense if those items dropped with fixed stats, where these variations always dropped with these exact attribute stats to maybe emphasize a role or a certain type of build, but that is not the case.

    RNG - Remove Purple Gear from World Tiers

    In Division 1, there was some philosophy about why purples in WT5 was a good thing. At this point I forgot what that philosophy was. Division 2 also has purple gear dropping in WT5, but....

    There are only a couple good purple items, but those items are also good as a high ends. These items are Alps and Airaldi. This is because of "density." If you are unaware of what that is, density means that the less attribute slots that an item has, the higher the rolls of those attribute slots will be, or could be. Conversely, the more attribute slots an item has, the lower those stat rolls will be. So, if these are the only two good purple items because of density and not because purple gear is actually good, purple items are practically useless.

    Purple gear effectively doubles the size of the loot pool, even if the drop chance is lower than high ends. Purple gear in WT5 also implies that high end gear rolls can be worse than the rolls of a gear rarity directly under it. Why would you want that to be a thing? For the sake of RNG and "grind?" Why not just remove purple gear and make high end gear roll better? There is no need to have purple gear drop in world tiers over some undisclosed philosophy. I'd understand if we could only equip one high end, and the rest purples, but that's now how it is.

    RNG - Value Ranges

    To the previous point, why not just shrink the value ranges of attributes on high end gear? I had to reinstall Division 1 to make the comparison.

    The lowest health roll that you can get on a high end chest in Division 2 is 5,600. The highest is 67,500. That is a difference of 61,900! In Division 1, the lowest main stat roll you could get on a WT5 item was 1114, the highest was 1272. That's a difference of 158! The likelihood of you finding a max rolled item or even an upgrade was higher than the likelihood it is in Division 2, even before factoring in density.

    And if we were to directly compare the health roll on chests. The lowest health roll that you can get on a chest in Division 1 is 14,184. The highest was 16,674. That's a difference of 2490. 2490 vs 61,900. This, in combination with density, is why we are not finding maxed roll, or God rolled items. The value ranges are extreme in comparison.

    Shrinking the ranges between the lowest value and the highest value is one way that upgrades can be found more often than not. But, as long as these value ranges continue to be this large, RNG will continue to be ugly and harsh. Now, of course, this doesn't apply to all attributes, but even so, you could make the lowest weapon damage roll on gloves 5% - 7% and keep the highest at 12%.

    This is something pulled directly from Division 1. Yes, I am aware of the whole "it's a different game" angle, and the "RPG is different in Division 2" angle, but you must understand why Division 1 is still credible. It has done some things better than what Division 2 offers.

    I've seen all of the "increase stash space" and "increase inventory" comments. I think this density system, in combination with the sheer amount of slots on gear attributed to RNG and sheer amount of gear variants is why we are over encumbered. We're holding onto gear with high rolls so that we may transfer them over to the "God rolled" item that we need, but yet never seem to find. Transferring stats over is a commitment because once you transfer or recalibrate a stat, the other attribute slots cannot be changed, and so:

    1: You're waiting on that one God rolled item to drop that's
    2: Covered in layers of RNG because of how many slots need to be "right" before
    3: You transfer that stat over.

    The longer you wait for that God rolled item to drop, and it doesn't, the more space gets taken up by other items with bad rolls but with one good roll about them.

    RNG - The Perception of Gear Score

    People. Gear Score currently means nothing in the game, except for Exotics. It is not an indication of quality like how it was in Division 1. The closer your gear score was to 292 meant that the rolls on your gear were near or at maximum value.

    500 gear can roll worse attribute values than an item with a lower gear score. Another reason why 500 gear score means nothing is because of how density works.

    Bringing back 515 gear score, or at least the "higher gear score = quality" philosophy, in some way can be the indication of quality. Any gear above 500 would only indicate that the rolls on that piece of gear are at or near their maximum value, if the rolls are in some sort of bracket range. If or until they add a WT6, anything above 500 should not mean that the base value of that gear is at or higher than the highest value on 500 gear, like comparing WT4 gear to WT5 gear.

    But, the only way this can work is if density and the recalibration station is changed.

    End Game Progression - Vendors

    In other RPGs, I drool at discovering new vendors in new places across the various locations of those game. It's because, and the games tend to set you up for it, you should always expect the vendor to sell you something much better than what your character or party members are wearing.

    This is absent in Division 2, for the most part. When a vendor does sell an item with a good roll, it doesn't bring happiness, it brings frustration because:

    Spoiler:  Show
    The vendor ends up being the clan vendor, and is only exclusive to a specific rank.

    In Division 1, we had our DZ ranks tied to vendors. In the early days, DZ vendors sold blueprints tied to DZ rank. Of course, that pissed a lot of people off, and then it was changed accordingly. Me, personally, I found that chase exciting.

    Division 2 vendors are currently useless, outside of the clan vendor. Even more so because they sell purple gear. On top of that, there are less vendors in Division 2 than there are in Division 1, and this isn't even a quality over quantity situation. If the clan vendor sells good items based on rank, why can't the normal vendors do the same?

    I have all these trinkets going nowhere. Why can't these trinkets, or even crafting materials, be used to level up vendors, so that we can buy good quality items from them at high ranks? This trinket exchange for XP creates a sense of progression towards top quality items, because we'd still have to play the game in order to find those materials. This progression doesn't have to be limited to trinkets and crafting materials either.

    If you give these vendors character to distinguish them from one another, you can have them sell arm patches or even a piece of clothing that, when worn, grants XP towards leveling up that vendor! Even the DZ vendors. These vendors could also have daily and weekly objectives that reward vendor XP! Revamping the vendors in a way like this creates a clear path towards upgraded loot without it all being behind RNG. And because Division 2 accommodates solo play pretty well, these vendors can be leveled up at any pace. It's just a matter of restock timers.

    Division 2 could benefit from having more vendors as well - one for weapons only, one for gear mods only, for example. And, Division 2 could benefit from another type of vendor.

    End Game Progression - Brand Representation

    Division 2 has all these brand sets, but yet no other type of physical representation of the companies responsible for their creation. Much like the normal vendors, brand set vendors that sell specific brand sets could be scattered across the map. In settlements, in a random house, in the sewers, a Yaahl vendor in a DZ safe house. Same deal as the previous vendor proposal - XP to level them up to buy higher quality items. Exchanging the specified brand set crafting material for those items could be an option as well.

    These brand set vendors are a form of "targeted" grinding, where items you don't need or aren't looking for are filtered out. I am someone who thinks that more brand sets should be added to the game, but this would mean that you wouldn't want to have a vendor for a growing list of brand sets. So, instead, brand set vendors could sell a collection of a couple different brand sets.

    You create a vendor level cap as well, and if the game updates with world tiers, and if more brand sets are added to the game, you increase the level cap. This creates a constant sense of progression towards something better than previous.

    End Game Progression - Recalibration Station

    Recalibration station isn't looking too good. We all know it. We are limited to one slot that can be recalibrated, and, again with the sheer number of slots affected by RNG, this isn't a good thing. Take a Petrov chest piece for example, where it drops with 4 main attribute slots. Because of this, this means that the density of those rolls will be low. So now you would have only one stat recalibrate-able, while the other stats are poor in value. This is even more crippling with recalibration caps.

    Because gear in Division 2 offers multiple attribute slots, and as everyone have been saying, allowing us to recalibrate, at least, two makes sense. And, allowing us to recalibrate any attribute with any attribute makes sense. The latter is how it was in Division 1

    Let's take a look at Division 1's recalibration station:

    Here you can see that I can recalibrate a critical hit damage roll on a backpack, which in Division 2 would be an offensive attribute, with a health or skill power roll, which would be considered a defensive and utility attribute, respectfully. So in other words, I am able to recalibrate an offensive attribute for a defensive attribute or an offensive attribute for a utility attribute. This is something that you cannot do in Division 2, and I fear the reason being why is because "the RPG is different." In my opinion, I don't think this is credible enough to justify it.

    Attribute slots have to be exact. And so we have to go out looking for the "exact", which is insane to find because, again, of the sheer number of slots attributed to RNG. This one attribute restriction has to be lifted, especially on items with 3 or more attribute slots. Those with 2 or less, I think, wouldn't really need this restriction lifted, especially if we are allowed to recalibrate any attribute with any attribute.

    End Game Progression - Settlement Upgrades

    This has been on my mind well before WT5 was in the game. I wanted to see if anything would change with them after the WT5 update, but nothing did.

    We've done this work to upgrade the settlements to improve the quality of the lives of the civilians, but when I walk up to these upgrades and see the people working, my thoughts are "Soooooo, you guys don't need anything? No extra meds? These kids wouldn't like any of these stuffed animals or toy cars I have in my backpack? Friend, you don't need any extra clean eating utensils for the folks? Hey, you guys over there at woodworking, you don't need extra hammers?"

    If we are still "mid-crisis" like we were in Division 1, don't you think these people will constantly need supplies?

    With all of these trinkets lying around, settlement upgrades can become a part of the end game progression loop, instead of just being aesthetics. Because then, what you worked to build becomes something you constantly visit to maintain. Like donating supplies to control point officers, donating trinkets to settlement upgrades can reward XP or reward specific items that we constantly use in the end game, like crafting material, brand set crafting materials, faction keys, and if more uses become available, division credits.

    End Game Progression - Division Credits

    Recalibration station and vendors, who more than likely are selling crap, are the only uses for Division credits right now. Division credit is still an avenue for end game progression. You want to buy a bundle of crafting materials? You want to buy a bounty on the spot? You want to buy exotic components from Cassie? Well how about faction keys? These are just simple examples of what division credits can be spent on. Obviously, tailoring the prices accordingly so that maximum values aren't easily obtained through division credits is recommended, but division credits would now have more prominent uses, rather than just sitting there being collected and only sometimes used if the recalibration station is needed.

    Loot - Targeted Grinding

    This has been something I've been trying to get across ever since Division 1. The idea of targeted grinding is the attempt at creating smaller loot pools that houses a specific list of items. These small pools directly filter out items that you don't need or aren't looking for. Right now, the game has some elements of targeted grinding:

    • Crashed supply drops in the LZ only drop gear and gear mods
    • Black Tusk and Outcast key boxes only drop gear and gear mods
    • True Sons and Hyena key boxes only drop weapons and skill mods
    • Black Tusk only drop True Patriot and Ongoing Directive
    • Some bounty targets can drop a specific item as a guaranteed reward (chest, glove, weapon etc.)
    • And, to an extent, the crafting station

    But, in regards to specific gear slots, weapon types, or specific brand sets, in actual activities in the game, targeted grinding doesn't exist.

    However, there is an opposing argument that I would like to challenge

    • I would rather be able to do any activity to have a chance at getting anything.

    As I have detailed with the acquisition of that Iguana Gila Chest, the issue with have everything dropping everywhere is that your chances of getting what you are looking for is significantly low. With the many variables that need to be correct before you strike gold, having everything dropping everywhere exacerbates the RNG.

    Division 2 has many activities that can accomodate targeted grinding and evidence of how targeted grinding can be executed, in regards to gear, already exists in the game. Think about the location of the leather strap thing you had to get for the exotic holster. It was designated to one specific control point. Same with the Stoner LMG and Carbine 7 when they were introduced.

    This means that if one item can be designated to one control point (or mission), multiple items can be designated to multiple control points, instead of all control points. For example, Murakami and Gila gear can be designated to drop from 4 different control points. And, if you really raise that control point level to max, your chances of getting a specific gear slot of those gear drops increases. An SMG and Pistol can also be designated to drop from those same four. Now, Fenris and 5.11 gear can then be designated to drop from 3 different control points, so on and so forth.

    Division 2 has a lot of open world activities that can house specific items as a reward. You need Badger gear? Propaganda broadcasts on the west side of the map. You need Providence knees? Territory Controls in the east. The Crash Site control point can also drop those knee pads, along three other brand sets for example.

    If you do not play Division for loot, then targeted grinding should not be an issue, as you'll be ignoring the loot anyway. Make your case known to the developers with the strawpoll.


    Loot - A Warning About Brands Sets Being Placed In All Six Slots

    This is kind of a call back to RNG. Agents, you may have heard the devs' idea about having all brand sets available in all six slots. At first I thought it sounded great, but then I thought about the RNG.

    For instance, currently 10 / 16 (18 if you count gear sets) brand sets have masks available. But, if every brand set were to get a mask, that means this loot pool will increase by 6, only decreasing your chances of getting what you may actually need in that gear slot when you consider the other parts of your build. Then it comes down to available attributes and gear mod slot types. If the way we can recalibrate attributes at the station doesn't change, the approach to gear mod slots doesn't change, variants are still a thing, and there is no targeted grinding, RNG will be HELL.

    I just wanted to bring this to your attention if you are someone who is in favor of this pending implementation.

    2 Questions To Consider

    1. How do you feel about having multiple avenues of end game progression? Do you think having too many will allow one to reach a perfect build too fast?
    2. How do you feel about Targeted Grinding?

    Inventory Management

    There are three things that I would like to bring forth about Inventory:

    1. Sharing items on the spot
    2. Sending open world drops straight to stash
    3. Comparing open world drops to items in our stashes

    1. If I could share items without having to pick them up first, I would save a lot of time and a lot of items. Currently, I have negative zero inventory space. If I want to share something, I would have to delete something first. And, because overencumbance is a part of a bigger issue, I tend to have a multitude of items with good rolls on them. I would have to delete good rolled items that I want to keep in order to share an item that I don't need. So, if someone says in chat "hey, if you get a <insert item>, let me know", I wouldn't be able to give them the item if I were to get it.

    But if I could walk up to that loot drop, inspect it, and then instantly share it without picking it up, this would save a lot of items from being deleted. In addition, designating the drop to only be able to be picked by the one who asked for it would prevent other group members from yoinking it.

    2. If I had the option to send new loot drops (or even loot already in my backpack) straight to the stash, my backpack wouldn't be as full and I could continue to stay in the open world longer without having to go to the BoO or a safe house to dump items manually. Loadouts can already pull items directly from the stash, so I can see the convenience of being able to send items directly to it without having to visit it. Pokemon has been doing this since the 90's!

    3. I tend to find a lot of weapons that I already have, but don't actually have on my character. Not everyone knows the damage range of each weapon by heart. Probably no one, really. If I could compare a new SIG drop to the SIGs that I have in my stash without picking the new SIG up or visiting my stash, I can gauge whether or not to pick it up right there on the spot. Rather than ignoring the drop, going to my stash to inspect the ones that I already have, and then end up saying "Oh, that was actually a good one."

    Also, where is that inventory app for our phones? If Division 1 once featured an app that allowed another player to control a drone, surely an app that allows us to manage our stash spaces is a walk in the park to make, right?

    End Game - Incursions Mattered

    Right now, there isn't a middle ground between Heroic and Raid. There's just an immediate ramp in difficulty, almost like going from a 0 degree horizontal line, to a 90 degree vertical line. Division 2 doesn't have any content that is comparable to an incursion. I assumed that Strongholds were going to be that content, but they turned out to just be extended missions. The term Stronghold isn't an indication of difficulty, but more so an indication of narrative.

    Incursions, like I detailed a bit in the RPG section, offered mechanics that made builds feel meaningful. They really fleshed out the RPG. They were easily accessible end game activities. They were always scaled to 4 player groups, matchmake-able, with Heroic as a difficulty option. Bringing back incursions allows players to experience pinnacle end game activities that challenges the RPG a lot smoother than what has to be done in order to experience... let's say, the "normal" raid.

    Normal raid should still be harder than a heroic incursion, but heroic incursions would be harder than heroic missions because of additional mechanics, challenge missions, Hard missions, and normal open world activities. This hierarchy of difficulty guides a player into tackling different levels of difficulty without the change being drastic. Like I said previously, I'm sure there is PVE content already planned for the next two episodes, and I know Terry has said "I'd like to focus on the content that we already have", but devs, you must understand why incursions would be beneficial for Division 2. They don't have to be lengthy, or overly complex with puzzles only solvable by astrophysicists, just feature mechanics and gameplay that expresses the RPG elements that is lacking in the other parts of the game, even in the current raid.

    You cannot inject RPG into the current raid without rebuilding it.

    You have three factions that only exist in the open world - The Outlaws, the Underground, and the Hunters. They are assets for incursions!

    The following raids would then only be a continuation or an enhancement of what these incursions would offer.

    The map will eventually be expanded. There is already a graphic in game that gives the location of a new settlement. So please, consider having future locations primed for incursions. Obviously, these would need to come after the RPG has been improved in immediate areas first.


    Spoiler:  Show

    Spoiler:  Show
    But, no, seriously, all of my PVP suggestions have been made here: https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...ls-and-Talents - a little outdated, but still holds a bit of water. Honestly, I am not a numbers guy. I cannot suggest how PVP can be balanced on the numbers side of things. I can only suggestion improvements to the rock, paper, scissors side of it.


    I've made these lengthy threads on multiple topics multiple times, but at this point, I'm ready for the bench, you know? Ready to take a backseat and become a casual player. Devs, understand that you will have those that post "devs you are stupid" or "this game is ****" threads, but this is my attempt at genuinely trying to help you guys.

    If the developers want feedback, well then here it is. I've thought about everything that I could think of, and there is probably still some things I forgot. However.. Agents, you may like something that I posted in this OP, but it may not end up in the game. If that ends up being the case, then the only thing that I can say about that is "Hey, at least I tried."

    That's the take away, I guess.

    Anyways, what's for lunch?
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  2. #2
    Merphee's Avatar Senior Member
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    Nov 2016
    reserved for whatever reasons

    If you would like to quote a piece of the OP, here is the tag (for a lack of a better term)

    [ QUOTE=Merphee;14441727 ],

    Just delete spaces between the brackets, highlight and copy the text you would like to quote, paste the text, then write "[/quote]" at the end of the text, without the quotations.
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  3. #3
    I just broke my finger on the like button.

    I've always thought - where to even start. You've nailed it.
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  4. #4
    #4 Booked for a response.

    First, let me say that I appreciate "What happens next?". Criticism - especially in your form -, is always good.

    - Improving the RPG - Gear
    I'm proud of the sets I assembled, and I'm also proud of the items (many of them) I looted since march. I got two characters at the moment and both of them have several sets. They go from pure damage to pure skill, and I have (lots of) fun using all of them. The Division 2 is only for 5 months available, and there is already more (content) like at the same time of it's predecessor. Not to speak from the 5 tiltle updates MASSIVE released in that short period.

    The two Incursions you mentioned are also not require a Reclaimer or an D3FNC, it's good to have them, but they are not essential for both scenarios (immunizer and mobile cover are enough). Furthermore, if you know how it works (and of course you should), you don't need 4 players, 2 are enough for Dragons Nest and Stolen Signal with heroic difficulty. If you have that claim, of course.

    Playing The Division and his successor is like being a Watchmaker, it's all about perfection and timing, and there is only one way to open the watch and one way to close it. In other words; repetetive.

    To be continued...
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  5. #5
    xcel30's Avatar Senior Member
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    Jun 2016
    Since i'm a shameless man (and saw that you mentioned my other crossbow thread), i do think we should talk about the weapon balancing as part of the issue, won't deny that fixing RNG kinda takes a priority, but hte very next step is making sure that people are not just glued into the same 6 gear pieces and using nothing, as whats the point of a person being able to direct their effort into getting all these brands in many ways if only one of them is important, and the same can be said for weapons. Which is way i'm calling myself shameless as i made a thread about pretty much every weapons https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...post-from-PTS)
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  6. #6
    Eval_Hell's Avatar Member
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    Jan 2016
    Did someone say ETF?
    Some great ideas here 👍🏻

    Would personally like to see a more structured class system, where gear becomes secondary and less of an importance to your overall build. Build diversity comes from the choices you make on the skill trees of your chosen class. Gear makes smaller but still significant additions to your build, but not totally dependent on it and relying heavily on RNG.

    But literally anything seems better than what we currently have in place.
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  7. #7
    Ubi-RealDude's Avatar Community Representative
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    Oct 2018
    Obviously a lot to respond to here. Thanks for taking the time to write all this up in a (quite frankly gorgeous and) easily legible format. I imagine I'll be reading and rereading this quite a bit while making references in my notes.

    Edit: The "untitled" title is deceiving. Any plans to change it?

    Edit 2: For future comments, please be sure to mention or restate, at least briefly, the sections or points you agree with.
    (And please, for the sake of the thread and scroll wheels everywhere, do not quote comment the entire original post.)
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  8. #8
    Merphee's Avatar Senior Member
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    Nov 2016
    Originally Posted by D-Y-N-4-M-O Go to original post
    I just broke my finger on the like button.

    I've always thought - where to even start. You've nailed it.
    There's a lot here, for sure. That's because a lot had to be said.

    Originally Posted by xcel30 Go to original post
    Since i'm a shameless man (and saw that you mentioned my other crossbow thread), i do think we should talk about the weapon balancing as part of the issue, won't deny that fixing RNG kinda takes a priority, but hte very next step is making sure that people are not just glued into the same 6 gear pieces and using nothing, as whats the point of a person being able to direct their effort into getting all these brands in many ways if only one of them is important, and the same can be said for weapons. Which is way i'm calling myself shameless as i made a thread about pretty much every weapons https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...post-from-PTS)
    Weapons are a part of the RPG, 100%. Like I said, I'm not a numbers guy, so I can't talk weapons in that regards. Like they've said, "now is the time" to provide that feedback.

    Originally Posted by Eval_Hell Go to original post
    Did someone say ETF?
    Some great ideas here ����

    Would personally like to see a more structured class system, where gear becomes secondary and less of an importance to your overall build. Build diversity comes from the choices you make on the skill trees of your chosen class. Gear makes smaller but still significant additions to your build, but not totally dependent on it and relying heavily on RNG.

    But literally anything seems better than what we currently have in place.
    We'd definitely need extended skill trees for that. Both options can improve the RPG, but there is a balance that would need to be struck - do you want more talents tied to a skill tree, or do you want more talents placed on gear and gear sets?
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  9. #9
    Merphee's Avatar Senior Member
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    Nov 2016
    Originally Posted by Ubi-RealDude Go to original post
    Obviously a lot to respond to here. Thanks for taking the time to write all this up in a (quite frankly gorgeous and) easily legible format. I imagine I'll be reading and rereading this quite a bit while making references in my notes.

    Edit: The "untitled" title is deceiving. Any plans to change it?
    You've got your work cut out for you.

    Also, yes. I'll change it to "What happens next?", to quote Hamish.

    Edit - if a mod could do that, that would be great.
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  10. #10
    xcel30's Avatar Senior Member
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    Jun 2016
    I'm also not really a numbers guy, so i just try to point out balance issues that can be raised either from how the weapon is on real life vs the function the weapon has in the game, kinda like when you have the obvious big caliber gun being the slow and heavy one vs the more compact smg, so it's mostly discussing why FAL presents certain flaws (low magazine size) with no counterpoint in terms of balance because video games. Similar discussion can be made for the gear sets and other status effects
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