[FEEDBACK] The Ghost Recon Team must be better at communicating | Forums

[Virtual-Chris]

I guess a few points of note

1. Working, functioning bipods were used in Future Soldier. They had a direct buff to recoil and aim, but delayed you slightly whilst you deployed them
2. Magazine management has featured in Wildlands
3. Camo has no effect in Wildlands, but ambient light and foliage does
4. The charging handle animation issue is well known, but is a "hollywood" effect
5. The projectile velocity in Wildlands PvP is significantly higher than it is in PvE

Which means that the studio know this stuff. They are deliberate and pre-determined gameplay effects that have been added and/or adapted to make what the Dev team feel is a better game experience. In other words, to argue for a change we need to describe it in gameplay terms not in real life terms. There doesn't seem much value in pointing out something that the Devs already know as the sole rationale for a change. That doesn't mean they would ignore the requests, just that they have most likely thought them through and decided on balance to go with the game as is.

We need better gameplay reasons in my opinion. To illustrate what I mean i'll start with magazine management. It is entirely consistent with the Breakpoint theme that a player should be made to feel that ammo is a precious commodity, one that should be used sparingly. Reloading with a partially full magazine should be a deliberate and not a casual act where the player is acutely aware that they have made a choice to prioritise reload speed over remaining capacity. It would add tension and excitement to engagements and also provide satisfaction to players that they are mastering a skill as they get used to having to think about rounds used.

I agree, they must have heard us, and as you point out, Modes like Ghost Mode, are evidence they are listening. But their lack of action and what I would characterize as experimental DLC for Wildlands seems to lead me to believe there has not been a very clear roadmap for this game from the beginning and they are making it up as they go. There was clearly no grand vision for Wildlands. It seems Breakpoint was born out of Fallen Ghosts - they are even using the same artwork. And I believe that if Ubisoft really understood what everyone is so passionate about, and why many people have invested hundreds of dollars and hours in Wildlands, we wouldn't be here trying to guess at why they haven't implemented many of these things we've been asking for. Sure, it could be a conscious balance decision as you say, a lack of priority or the dev cost is too high, or even a basic lack of understanding as to how these things work, but the fact is, we're here speculating as to why many of our requests are not in the new game, rather than being hyped that they are.

When they announced bloused boots, a fence cutter, and a healing system (vs. regenerating health) I was very excited... I thought, "Wow!... if they implemented these things, they must have implemented a lot of our other top requests because there are a dozen other major improvements higher on our list than bloused boots." But I'm really afraid, that those three things are the only things they've added from the long list of stuff we've been begging for the last two years. So when people are asking about why they aren't being more communicative or doing more marketing about all the improvements in this new game... I'm afraid, all the good news is out. If there is more good news and they have implemented a lot of changes we've been begging for, then just come out and let us know! Why keep it a secret?

[Bone_Frog]

I have watched a few game play videos since E3 and a lot of these things you bolded weren't evident, but maybe I'm not watching closely. I have seen bipods on rifles, but I don't know if that gives a buff to steady aim or is just for looks.

Why would they add a buff to aim? That isn't how bipods function in real life. Any marksman/sniper worth his salt is just as accurate with sling as with a bipod. Also snipers are taught to create expedient gun rests using their rucks and/or terrain. Your ruck, properly packed is a much more stable shooting base than a bipod. This is why a lot of military snipers don't use them, or if they do it is highly situational. Just as, at times snipers have been known to kick their spotters off their spotter scope stands and use those(see Megs picks of "tripods" above).

Of course they've talked about prone camo, but I'm not aware of any comments on whether your choice of camo pattern for a given type of environment helps or hinders your detection or whether gillie suits make a difference.

Generally speaking camo patterns don't do much for blending in. They are more there for freind-foe detection. It is why the IDF uses just OD green, and the army went with UCP a while back. Ghillie suits are much the same. Having a bunch of burlap strips hanging from you doesn't make you invisible. Knowing how weave enviornmental elements into said suit can. Which is more or less what prone camo is, except that someone at Ubi has a Predator fetish and so they decided to make it like Dutch rubbing mud on himself. Brandon Webb talks about this in some humorous length in one of his books.

I came across a discussion that was talking about reload animations, but I don't think there was any certainty around whether they addressed the reload animations for racking the charging handle vs hitting the bolt release

Lots of E3 gameplay footage out there. Lots of reloads in those videos. Not a charging handle being pulled in any of them.

And from what I saw, it looks like the ammo pool is the same as in Wildlands. In other words, they've mostly ignored the top requests for improvements... am I correct? That would certainly explain the lack of marketing of these elements

Watch more carefully. It is like Ghost Mode. You can see a couple of guys swapping partial mags and losing those rounds from their round counts. Which was what most people wanted as a "realistic" reload. Those of us who wanted mag count and mag management were in the minority, and honestly the larger the assortment of weapons the harder that would become.

Like I said them allowing influencers/content creators to play the game(some for hours) and film their gameplay is communication. The issue is that sadly none of the content creators who have overly cared about the things you are talking about made the cut(many of them for obvious reasons IMO). So you have to spend time watching the E3 footage carefully to get the answers you are looking for.

[Megalodon26]

It would have been nice, if some of those content creators, had been more than just a casual Ghost Recon player, or had asked the community for specific things to look for, while playing the game. Such as testing if bipods worked, as well as if there was any differences between animations for a tactical reload,, versus loading from empty, and testing out bullet drop, all while still playing the game.

IMO the bullet drop is going to be a major concern, because you are going to want to go for as many headshots as possible. So once you know the range, at which the bullet no longer lands where the reticule is pointing, you adjust you game play, to get those consistent one shot kills.

[Virtual-Chris]

Why would they add a buff to aim? That isn't how bipods function in real life. Any marksman/sniper worth his salt is just as accurate with sling as with a bipod. Also snipers are taught to create expedient gun rests using their rucks and/or terrain. Your ruck, properly packed is a much more stable shooting base than a bipod. This is why a lot of military snipers don't use them, or if they do it is highly situational. Just as, at times snipers have been known to kick their spotters off their spotter scope stands and use those(see Megs picks of "tripods" above).


Generally speaking camo patterns don't do much for blending in. They are more there for freind-foe detection. It is why the IDF uses just OD green, and the army went with UCP a while back. Ghillie suits are much the same. Having a bunch of burlap strips hanging from you doesn't make you invisible. Knowing how weave enviornmental elements into said suit can. Which is more or less what prone camo is, except that someone at Ubi has a Predator fetish and so they decided to make it like Dutch rubbing mud on himself. Brandon Webb talks about this in some humorous length in one of his books.

Lots of E3 gameplay footage out there. Lots of reloads in those videos. Not a charging handle being pulled in any of them.


Watch more carefully. It is like Ghost Mode. You can see a couple of guys swapping partial mags and losing those rounds from their round counts. Which was what most people wanted as a "realistic" reload. Those of us who wanted mag count and mag management were in the minority, and honestly the larger the assortment of weapons the harder that would become.

Like I said them allowing influencers/content creators to play the game(some for hours) and film their gameplay is communication. The issue is that sadly none of the content creators who have overly cared about the things you are talking about made the cut(many of them for obvious reasons IMO). So you have to spend time watching the E3 footage carefully to get the answers you are looking for.

I just watched another video and at about 6:30 of this clip, the sniper reloads with 3 left in the mag and 33 in reserve, and ends up with 5 in the mag and 31 in reserve... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTVT9dLkGRo

So it's just like the Wildlands base game where you conserve ammo in a half empty magazine. This is fine with me, as no one in Nomad's situation is going to be throwing away half-empty magazines. However, what would have been nice is for them to spend a bit of effort to improve realism in a variety of areas. I recall reading that Future Soldier had a mag management system. It's not that hard and as I'm sure you'll appreciate attention to detail is super important.

Every game is a compromise between abstraction and realism. You abstract or simplify stuff that doesn't matter (like car keys, bathroom breaks, computer hacking), and you focus on attention to details on stuff that does matter to your game play... ammo, guns, attachments, spec ops gear, ballistics.

I'm sure there's an entire team at Ubisoft dedicated to making water appear more realistic... and weather effects, and vegetation and wind... why? Because more realism improves immersion. The same should apply to core mechanics. Since this is a shooter, they should be just as focused on attention to details in shooting aspects.

For example, those bullet contrails are bloody awful. Who thought that was a good addition? Is this game now designed for kindergarten shooters? I really really hope those can be turned off.

Anyway, if there is good news baked into this new game, I really don't understand why we are left trying to parse it together by watching game footage. Ubisoft should just start talking about the changes they are making for the better. Not everyone has time to sit and analyze game footage from some other player with no idea what they are doing.

I'm glad many of you are happy with this new game, but in many regards it seems like several steps in the wrong direction to me.

[Bone_Frog]

It would have been nice, if some of those content creators, had been more than just a casual Ghost Recon player,

Yeah the problem there is most of those non-casual content creators have soured themselves with Ubisoft and a few have gotten forum bans. Don't see them getting invited. Operator Drewski was there, but he decided to go loud and goof around as opposed to really testing things out. So there are two problems there. The content creators themselves have to play to their base, and well I guess non-casual GR players(at least the ones that haunt these forums) aren't their base. Also bear in mind that these forums can be a bit of an echo chamber and may not actually represent the greater community of players.

[QUOTE=Megalodon26;14454692Such as testing if bipods worked, as well as if there was any differences between animations for a tactical reload,, versus loading from empty, and testing out bullet drop, all while still playing the game.[/QUOTE]
Define "bipods working"? Are you wanting magic accuracy and range buffs that wouldn't exist IRL? Are you wanting them to deploy? See lots of people say they want functional bipods, few ever actually define what they mean, and then people get upset when they don't get what they wanted. I did actually define what I wanted in a fully functional bipod once

Fully Functional Bipods When I say fully functional, I mean fully functional. When I've been detected and need to shift location, I want that thing to get hung up on any and all vegetation leaving me with the choice to either abandon the weapon system or be exposed to enemy fire while I try desperately to disentangle it. I want it to snag consistantly and constantly on brush and bushes, especially when I am trying to hot foot it away from oncoming enemies, at times pulling me over backwards and further depleting my stamina. Most importantly, when I'm in a fire fight for my life and have to switch to firing in a new direction, I want o have to spend precious time readjusting the bipod in order to be able to bring my weapon system to bear. Ignore the rest of my list if you want Ubisoft, but please give me bipods just like this.

Now aside from that, at least cosmetically Bipods are there. As it appears to be an underbarrel attachment, you can probably assume it has some sort of buff in certain areas and debuffs in others like any other underbarrel attachment.

IMO the bullet drop is going to be a major concern, because you are going to want to go for as many headshots as possible. So once you know the range, at which the bullet no longer lands where the reticule is pointing, you adjust you game play, to get those consistent one shot kills.

See this video of nigh on 40min of sniper game play with shots taken out to 250m.

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There doesn't seem to be overly significant bullet drop, and bullet velocity with a suppressed weapon seems to be significantly sped up. As far as going out and testing bullet drop, with limited play time that was generally curated how exactly do you expect that to happen so that it comes back with exact amounts. While bullet drop from all the E3 videos I've seen seems to be greatly improved, I'm betting that much like in Wildlands it is going to vary from weapon system to weapon system, optic to optic and depending on the general build of the weapon system. Alternately is also possible that a Sniper skill/perk may be "DOPE the scope" wherein the bullet will always hit zero without the need for hold over.

Much of what you are asking has, as I've said before, been answered if you carefully watch the E3 videos. Some things remain unanswered(see my above list of questions). However, we should give credit to Ubi for what and when they have communicated.

[Bone_Frog]

I just watched another video and at about 6:30 of this clip, the sniper reloads with 3 left in the mag and 33 in reserve, and ends up with 5 in the mag and 31 in reserve... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTVT9dLkGRo

If you pay really careful attention to gameplay videos you will find that if a guy is on the move when he switches out partial mag, you lose the remaining ammo. If he is stationary/in cover he retains it. While not a perfect solution to the desire for realistic reloads, that isn't a bad compromise, as stowing a mag is a lot harder to do while jogging than sitting in cover. Yes you could do it while jogging, but it would slow down your reload, and isn't likely to be something you do while under fire. Which is why I think the system they seem to have in place is a fair compromise to what people have been asking for.

[Mongol_Horde]

Good convo guys.

...I'm glad many of you are happy with this new game, but in many regards it seems like several steps in the wrong direction to me.

It'd be good if they turned those several steps back in the right direction so that there are more than just "many" happy with it, because "many" is just not good enough. The question is "do they want to?"

... Which is why I think the system they seem to have in place is a fair compromise to what people have been asking for.

I agree. I like compromises that have some sense and logic attached to them too. As you said "While not a perfect solution to the desire for realistic reloads ...", it's a good one nonetheless.

And hopefully, this means that there's no more of those crazy things such as driving over discarded weapons and suddenly having ammo restocked and your weapon fully reloaded ... while still in the vehicle!

[Kean_1]

If you pay really careful attention to gameplay videos you will find that if a guy is on the move when he switches out partial mag, you lose the remaining ammo. If he is stationary/in cover he retains it. While not a perfect solution to the desire for realistic reloads, that isn't a bad compromise, as stowing a mag is a lot harder to do while jogging than sitting in cover. Yes you could do it while jogging, but it would slow down your reload, and isn't likely to be something you do while under fire. Which is why I think the system they seem to have in place is a fair compromise to what people have been asking for.

That's a neat feature if that's the case and a much better solution to their "realistic reload" in Ghost Mode but I still can't understand why they overlook other little details that IMO can make a big difference in the experience when combined together. For instance, when reloading with one still in the chamber. Even the Division accounts for this (where appropriate). .....mag capacity +1.

If you reload a 30 rnd magazine when empty, you have 30 rnds. If you reload again, you have 31.

If you change out a partially used 30 rnd mag, you will then have 31.

Again, it's not little details (such as that) in themselves that necessarily make the difference, but combined they can really help the immersion and affect the gameplay experience in a positive way IMO by adding a level of complexity for those who enjoy it without overdoing it for those that don't.

[GAP_Computer]

i can hit a target a 300 m with my 556XI without any problem in wildlands, i need a miracle to hit a target at the same distance with a sniper rifle in BP, i really hope they fix that.

[Megalodon26]

That was my point, about bullet drop. In Wildlands, you could shoot at an enemy, and as long as it was lined up properly, it didn't matter if the round hit him in the end, or the foot. it was the same result. But in Breakpoint, you are wanting that head shot every time. So I am likely going to be limiting my engagements to around 100m, with an AR, because i know that I can hit that 100%.