Patch 2.11.0 literally just broke Shinobi | Forums

[Valoredramack]

They still wreck my sh..tuff with frightening regularity

If you're getting wrecked by Shinobi even after this Nerf Hammer and on a regular basis, then that is more a reflection of your own skill level and has little to do with the Shinobi's viability in comparison to other heroes.

The only way a Shinobi can "wreck" someone is if their opponent is making a tremendous amount of amateur mistakes. Even Youtubers like Freeze acknowledged that the Shinobi had utterly reactable move sets even before this Nerf went into effect.


The overall consensus is that this Shinobi nerf was overkill. Of course there will always be players that will get stomped regardless of Patch changes because not everyone excels at games like this. Also, players who use the Shinobi require a higher skill level to begin with because it only takes one or two mistakes for us to get killed.

[DKHGames1138]

If you're getting wrecked by Shinobi even after this Nerf Hammer and on a regular basis, then that is more a reflection of your own skill level and has little to do with the Shinobi's viability in comparison to other heroes.

The only way a Shinobi can "wreck" someone is if their opponent is making a tremendous amount of amateur mistakes. Even Youtubers like Freeze acknowledged that the Shinobi had utterly reactable move sets even before this Nerf went into effect.


The overall consensus is that this Shinobi nerf was overkill. Of course there will always be players that will get stomped regardless of Patch changes because not everyone excels at games like this. Also, players who use the Shinobi require a higher skill level to begin with because it only takes one or two mistakes for us to get killed.

I never claimed to be good at this game; if you go through my history you'll find me repeatedly restating how terrible I am at this game. As far as my experience with Shinobi, being "predictable" is not how I would describe anything they do because they have a tendency to appear out of nowhere and kill in seconds. Not to mention if the fight isn't going their way, they just anime run away.

Oh, Freeze said it. There's no disagreeing with Freeze, even when he's wrong. (that was sarcasm)

I don't care what the consensus is, "the consensus" is a bunch of anime lovers who got their OP toy toned down and we're now drowning in their tears. As far as Shinobi requiring a higher level of skill, you wanted to play the mystical ninja with secret techniques somehow no one else on the planet in the whole of history figured out. You have to expect that those super secret ninja techniques are going to be difficult to use.

We're all dealing with perceived or actual imbalance, and Shinobi isn't even the first assassin to be toned down.

[Valoredramack]

they have a tendency to appear out of nowhere and kill in seconds.

As I already stated, if you're dying that easily then it has more to do with your own skill level.

That's not the status quo. Shinobi needs to be competitive against players that actually have situational awareness and know how to exploit the Shinobi's glaring vulnerabilities.

[DKHGames1138]

As I already stated, if you're dying that easily then it has more to do with your own skill level.

That's not the status quo. Shinobi needs to be competitive against players that actually have situational awareness and know how to exploit the Shinobi's glaring vulnerabilities.

As far as my skill level, I make no bones about it. I suck at this game. Worst player ever. If you can find someone worse at this game than myself I will be legitimately impressed.

As far as glaring vulnerabilities? You hit them and they die? Sometimes they actually have to use the metric f%$# ton of mobility they have rather than going toe-to-toe with heroes significantly tougher than they? I question YOUR skill when you've got the highest damage in the game, the ability to project that damage at a far greater range than any other hero, and are worried about lacking hyper armor on a kick.

[Vee63bMech]

As far as my experience with Shinobi, being "predictable" is not how I would describe anything they do because they have a tendency to appear out of nowhere and kill in seconds. Not to mention if the fight isn't going their way, they just anime run away.

Therein lies the misunderstanding, it's in your experience. Believe it or not, there are Shinobi players/mains that aren't "weebs", or "anime lovers" as you state it. There are different categories of players when it comes to a fighting game:

"Gamers can be represented by three different attributes: brains, heart, and body.

Brain, refers to the scientific player, the type who spends time in the lab trying to find ways to optimize their game. That said, the almost limitless possibilities and situations in fighting games means it’s impossible to find the optimal answers to all these situations, and unfamiliar situations can be very scary for these players.

Heart, on the other hand, represents the emotional or feeling-based player. A player like this prefers mind games, baiting their opponent, relying on making reads, or as many in the community would call it, “yomi”. This kind of player thrives on the other player’s unfamiliarity with certain situations to get the win.

The final archetype, body, refers to players who are known for their physical capabilities, specifically their execution and reactions. This is the most straightforward of the three archetypes and tends to be the one that people unfamiliar with fighting games tend to think is the only attribute required to succeed. These types of players benefit from characters who have difficult links and combos."
(SRC: )

Some people genuinely play for other reasons. If I was to put myself into one of these categories, it would be 'Brain', I've played with each Hero until at least Rep 1 to get a feel of their strengths and weaknesses.

Have you actually used Shinobi? Short chains, lots of prerequisites, low HP, no openers, Ranged attacks are asking to be killed (I've watched Shugoki players connect 2 heavies before Shinobi recovers), and the super sprint is a joke that burns stamina. Shinobi is VERY punishable and predictable.

Shinobi's Kick requires one of 2 things before the kick actually happens, a double dodge, or Crushing Front Roll. Crushing Front Roll requires a Ranged Heavy to be thrown out first.

The easy to punish moves Shinobi has are:

Ranged GB: CGB this and Shinobi is unbalanced = Free Heavy

Ranged Heavy: Parry This and Shinobi is unbalanced = Free Heavy

Kick: Since there's no HA/Uninterruptible on this any more, either dodge or light attack Shinobi out of it.

Shadow Dancer: This is the L,L combo/chain. It's re-actable and you can simply block it to interrupt it.

Ghoul's Rage: H, H combo/chain... You can see Shinobi's Heavy attack startup from a mile away and it's an easy parry.

Sickle Rain: Has to connect 2 heavies to start it. See above tip.

Backflip: Has reduced range now... So either forward dodge attack, or GB.

These are literally the basics and prerequisites for Shinobi.
Sickle Rain has to be started with either a Ranged GB, Crushing Front Roll, or Ghoul's Rage. If you learn to counter these moves and the kick, you've basically left the Shinobi with no options to fight because these are the most common startups for Shinobi's mix-ups and the more damaging Sickle Rain. If you have team mates, it's even worse because 9/10, a team mate will hit you or your opponent and Sickle Rain gets cancelled. Also, 2-3 Heavy attacks is enough to put Shinobi down.

As far as my skill level, I make no bones about it. I suck at this game. Worst player ever. If you can find someone worse at this game than myself I will be legitimately impressed.

As far as glaring vulnerabilities? You hit them and they die? Sometimes they actually have to use the metric f%$# ton of mobility they have rather than going toe-to-toe with heroes significantly tougher than they? I question YOUR skill when you've got the highest damage in the game, the ability to project that damage at a far greater range than any other hero, and are worried about lacking hyper armor on a kick.

Mobility, not really, the distance on dodges and backflip is actually laughable. Highest damage? Let's see...

Damage Output:

Shadow Dancer (L,L - no direction change): 14,10 Total DMG = 24
The first hit is easy to block, but if it connects, the second is guaranteed.
Shadow Dancer (L,L - direction change): 14,14 Total DMG = 28
This one, the second hit is NOT guaranteed.
Sickle Rain (H,H,L,L,L - All the Lights are timed): 30,35,2,2,2 (33 stamina and bleed, 3 for each bleed spurt a total of 4 = 12) Total DMG = 83
Since May 23rd, 2017, I've yet to have been able to pull this off on any human player in 1v1 since the first heavy is always blocked, parried, or deflected. Wouldn't even attempt it in 2+v1
Sickle Rain Mix Up: 35,2,2,2 (33 stamina and bleed, 3 for each bleed spurt a total of 4 = 12) Total DMG = 53
Decent amount of damage, but a Ranged GB usually leaves Shinobi unbalanced laying on the ground and eating free Heavies. In a 2+v1 situation, it's just instant death.
Ghoul's Rage (H,L): 30,10 Total DMG = 40
If the Heavy isn't parried, the Light attack has a 50/50 of connecting, otherwise it get's blocked/parried.
Spider Silk Whip (First level charge): 25 Total DMG = 25
Easy to dodge or parry this to unbalance and leave Shinobi on the ground to get in free Heavies.
Spider Silk Whip (Second level charge): 25 Total DMG = 25
Same as above but Shinobi also waste more stamina while spinning his weapon.
Crushing Front Roll (Spider Silk Whip, Dodge, H,L,L,L): 35,2,2,2 (33 stamina and bleed, 3 for each bleed spurt a total of 4 = 12) Total DMG = 53
50/50 chance of connecting the heavy, Shinobi can be either Unbalanced by parrying the Ranged Heavy or hit out of his roll before the Heavy to start the Sickle Rain Chain.
Shadow Strike (Parry, Light Attack Follow Up): 14 (Then bleed 3 DMG for 5 spurts) Total DMG = 29
The most useful attack in Shinobi's kit, can be overwhelmed by Light Spam attacks.
Teleport Light Attack (Deflect, Light Attack Follow Up): 15 (Then bleed 5 DMG for 5 spurts) Total DMG = 40
Initial puff of smoke causes bleed but no direct damage, follow up attack causes 15 DMG, the rest is all bleed damage. With the movement changes though, good luck even getting a deflect off.

The rest of his kit does 0 DMG, just stagger. So if we're talking about numbers, maybe, but realistic DMG from Shinobi is probably at max 53, and that's after wasting half a bar of stamina to set up either Sickle Rain Mix Up or Crushing Front Roll into Sickle Rain. There are characters that do way more damage than Shinobi. I'm just saying though, you can't judge a character until you've learned their strengths and weaknesses. Also notice, I've pointed out the "Glaring Vulnerabilities" for Shinobi for you. Maybe the "consensus" is from a group of gamers that do more than play casually and tried utilizing the kit that was given to a character by the devs? Maybe the "consensus" is about a mechanic that is vital to a character's functionality that has been removed and basically made the character unusable? Maybe up the training time and learn to Counter GB and Parry Shinobi into the dirt like 85% of the remaining For Honor Community? At the end of the day you can't say that a character needs a nerf just because you don't know how to fight against them or what their moves and abilities are. There's actual numbers, quantifiable, that supports the "consensus".

[Valoredramack]

Therein lies the misunderstanding, it's in your experience. Believe it or not, there are Shinobi players/mains that aren't "weebs", or "anime lovers" as you state it. There are different categories of players when it comes to a fighting game:

"Gamers can be represented by three different attributes: brains, heart, and body.

Brain, refers to the scientific player, the type who spends time in the lab trying to find ways to optimize their game. That said, the almost limitless possibilities and situations in fighting games means it’s impossible to find the optimal answers to all these situations, and unfamiliar situations can be very scary for these players.

Heart, on the other hand, represents the emotional or feeling-based player. A player like this prefers mind games, baiting their opponent, relying on making reads, or as many in the community would call it, “yomi”. This kind of player thrives on the other player’s unfamiliarity with certain situations to get the win.

The final archetype, body, refers to players who are known for their physical capabilities, specifically their execution and reactions. This is the most straightforward of the three archetypes and tends to be the one that people unfamiliar with fighting games tend to think is the only attribute required to succeed. These types of players benefit from characters who have difficult links and combos."
(SRC: )

Some people genuinely play for other reasons. If I was to put myself into one of these categories, it would be 'Brain', I've played with each Hero until at least Rep 1 to get a feel of their strengths and weaknesses.

Have you actually used Shinobi? Short chains, lots of prerequisites, low HP, no openers, Ranged attacks are asking to be killed (I've watched Shugoki players connect 2 heavies before Shinobi recovers), and the super sprint is a joke that burns stamina. Shinobi is VERY punishable and predictable.

Shinobi's Kick requires one of 2 things before the kick actually happens, a double dodge, or Crushing Front Roll. Crushing Front Roll requires a Ranged Heavy to be thrown out first.

The easy to punish moves Shinobi has are:

Ranged GB: CGB this and Shinobi is unbalanced = Free Heavy

Ranged Heavy: Parry This and Shinobi is unbalanced = Free Heavy

Kick: Since there's no HA/Uninterruptible on this any more, either dodge or light attack Shinobi out of it.

Shadow Dancer: This is the L,L combo/chain. It's re-actable and you can simply block it to interrupt it.

Ghoul's Rage: H, H combo/chain... You can see Shinobi's Heavy attack startup from a mile away and it's an easy parry.

Sickle Rain: Has to connect 2 heavies to start it. See above tip.

Backflip: Has reduced range now... So either forward dodge attack, or GB.

These are literally the basics and prerequisites for Shinobi.
Sickle Rain has to be started with either a Ranged GB, Crushing Front Roll, or Ghoul's Rage. If you learn to counter these moves and the kick, you've basically left the Shinobi with no options to fight because these are the most common startups for Shinobi's mix-ups and the more damaging Sickle Rain. If you have team mates, it's even worse because 9/10, a team mate will hit you or your opponent and Sickle Rain gets cancelled. Also, 2-3 Heavy attacks is enough to put Shinobi down.




Mobility, not really, the distance on dodges and backflip is actually laughable. Highest damage? Let's see...

Damage Output:

Shadow Dancer (L,L - no direction change): 14,10 Total DMG = 24
The first hit is easy to block, but if it connects, the second is guaranteed.
Shadow Dancer (L,L - direction change): 14,14 Total DMG = 28
This one, the second hit is NOT guaranteed.
Sickle Rain (H,H,L,L,L - All the Lights are timed): 30,35,2,2,2 (33 stamina and bleed, 3 for each bleed spurt a total of 4 = 12) Total DMG = 83
Since May 23rd, 2017, I've yet to have been able to pull this off on any human player in 1v1 since the first heavy is always blocked, parried, or deflected. Wouldn't even attempt it in 2+v1
Sickle Rain Mix Up: 35,2,2,2 (33 stamina and bleed, 3 for each bleed spurt a total of 4 = 12) Total DMG = 53
Decent amount of damage, but a Ranged GB usually leaves Shinobi unbalanced laying on the ground and eating free Heavies. In a 2+v1 situation, it's just instant death.
Ghoul's Rage (H,L): 30,10 Total DMG = 40
If the Heavy isn't parried, the Light attack has a 50/50 of connecting, otherwise it get's blocked/parried.
Spider Silk Whip (First level charge): 25 Total DMG = 25
Easy to dodge or parry this to unbalance and leave Shinobi on the ground to get in free Heavies.
Spider Silk Whip (Second level charge): 25 Total DMG = 25
Same as above but Shinobi also waste more stamina while spinning his weapon.
Crushing Front Roll (Spider Silk Whip, Dodge, H,L,L,L): 35,2,2,2 (33 stamina and bleed, 3 for each bleed spurt a total of 4 = 12) Total DMG = 53
50/50 chance of connecting the heavy, Shinobi can be either Unbalanced by parrying the Ranged Heavy or hit out of his roll before the Heavy to start the Sickle Rain Chain.
Shadow Strike (Parry, Light Attack Follow Up): 14 (Then bleed 3 DMG for 5 spurts) Total DMG = 29
The most useful attack in Shinobi's kit, can be overwhelmed by Light Spam attacks.
Teleport Light Attack (Deflect, Light Attack Follow Up): 15 (Then bleed 5 DMG for 5 spurts) Total DMG = 40
Initial puff of smoke causes bleed but no direct damage, follow up attack causes 15 DMG, the rest is all bleed damage. With the movement changes though, good luck even getting a deflect off.

The rest of his kit does 0 DMG, just stagger. So if we're talking about numbers, maybe, but realistic DMG from Shinobi is probably at max 53, and that's after wasting half a bar of stamina to set up either Sickle Rain Mix Up or Crushing Front Roll into Sickle Rain. There are characters that do way more damage than Shinobi. I'm just saying though, you can't judge a character until you've learned their strengths and weaknesses. Also notice, I've pointed out the "Glaring Vulnerabilities" for Shinobi for you. Maybe the "consensus" is from a group of gamers that do more than play casually and tried utilizing the kit that was given to a character by the devs? Maybe the "consensus" is about a mechanic that is vital to a character's functionality that has been removed and basically made the character unusable? Maybe up the training time and learn to Counter GB and Parry Shinobi into the dirt like 85% of the remaining For Honor Community? At the end of the day you can't say that a character needs a nerf just because you don't know how to fight against them or what their moves and abilities are. There's actual numbers, quantifiable, that supports the "consensus".

Well said, you pretty much covered the main reasons why Shinobi is so weak; his moves are incredibly easy to punish and the low health pool makes being countered far more lethal in comparison to when other heroes are countered.

Anti-Shinobi players love to say that the Shinobi has supposedly "high damage" without even taking into consideration the fact that it takes a Shinobi three or four times more successful strikes to actually kill an average opponent, due to the fact that every other hero has higher health, higher durability, and better defensive move sets. As an example, the Highlander and other hard-hitting heroes could pretty much kill a Shinobi with just three successful heavy attacks because of the Shinobi's drastically low health and lack of defense. The strategy that most players use against the Shinobi is to simply spam their attacks because they only need a few hits to land, especially the kind of heroes that spam unblockables.. Opponents gladly soak up Shinobi's Double Lights just to trade strikes a few times because they know that the Shinobi has feeble health and defense.

The Shinobi is simply not capable of killing an opponent in just a few hits, despite all of this exaggeration about his supposedly high damage, in reality the Shinobi has to launch a barrage of successful attacks to win a single fight.

Plenty of times I've gotten opponents down to a sliver of health including with bleed from Sickle Rain and they still manage to survive. But if the Shinobi is at sliver of health and has bleed applied, there is no coming back from that.

On top of it, the Shinobi is often up against feats like Second Wind and Shield Buffs which feels like fighting an entirely new round with the same opponent. The amount of effort that its required for a Shinobi to triumph demands far fewer mistakes than any other hero in the line-up because of all these compounding factors. I didn't even include the Hyper Armor that opponents have, which further extends of the durability of those opposing heroes and negates Shinobi's attacks.

Basically, Shinobi players have to approach every fight as we're trying to get a flawless victory, because otherwise we're dead in a simple 3-hit combo from the average opponent if we make mistakes The fact of the matter is that the Shinobi is extremely limited in offensive capability because we have too many move sets that are practically suicidal to use in a face-to-face fight and we're up against opponents that soak in far more damage than a Shinobi. Shinobi also cannot sustain consecutive attacks so we have to regulate our distance, which is even more difficult now since the backflip was nerfed.


The Kick Mix-up is so slow that the average opponent can simply side step it and immediately counter attack right afterward. The Double Dash is completely vulnerable to Guard Break which is one of my biggest complaints, so it is risky to use it up-close. The Ranged Heavy is easily parried which completely wipes out all stamina. The Ranged GB is easily countered which we all know makes the Shinobi a sitting duck. The list goes on and one when it comes to severely punishable move sets within the Shinobi's kit. Anyone who isn't a noob knows how to exploit these vulnerabilities when fighting a Shinobi. Even the Shinobi's normal Heavy Attack is laughably slow and one of the easiest attacks in the game to parry because of how clearly telegraphed it is.

When people talk about damage, they really need to keep things in perspective by taking into account durability and health pool factors. A more accurate measurement of true damage would be to count how many attacks need to land before an opponent dies. Looking at damage by itself is irrelevant if the Shinobi can die in 3 hits while his opponents do not die even after 10 successful hits from a Shinobi..

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Some facts in order to be fair:

1. Highlander kills all 120 hp characters with 3 heavies, and even the weaker vanguards if we are talking about defensive heavies. That 10 hp difference doesn't change a thing about survivability (level 4 feat of shinobi actually makes him one of the toughest assassins once unlocked).

2. Needing 3-4 more hits to kill an opponent is technically true- if guaranteed light followups count an extra, but if you really counted them that way, you are extremely cynical. If we count them as one, shinobi can kill all 120 hp characters (including highlanders) with 3 hits. We did not even speak about deflects, or the fact he has the highest heavy parry punish in the game with 29 (I get 34 with my pk on a light parry, just as comparsion). Shinobi has incredibly high damage, and while getting that in might be a bit more difficult against a turtle, damage from counters is lawbringer level.

Shinobi needs a rework, that's a fact, because he has useless and broken aspects too. But saying he needs less hits to be killed than hits to kill, especially 3-4 less is a misinformation.

[MalumEnach]

Hey Ubi.... What in the entire hell?! This update has broken Shinobi to the point that he's not even usable anymore. I'm not just another Shinobi main complaining or attacking with baseless conjecture. I honestly got so tired of Shinobi getting shafted that I started to keep track of every change to him with every patch and Live Update.

Shinobi is classified as an "Assassin". His moniker of "HIGHLY MOBILE" is completely false!

Allow me to lay this out for you Ubi, in your own words from all of the Patch Notes and add a bit of my own annotation to your "DEVELOPER'S COMMENTS". To simplify this and make it easier to see what I'm talking about, I'll even color code this.

Everything in RED was a nerf, GREEN will be a buff, ORANGE will be bringing mechanics in line with global standards, as well as some that actually made his "HIGHLY MOBILE" title moot. My own comments in regards to Dev Comments will be BLUE. Simple no?

TL;DR: Proof that the DEVS are breaking Shinobi to a point of not being usable. Revert the mobility changes for the once "HIGHLY MOBILE" Shinobi, give him his uninterruptible back, and maybe something like a Light > Heavy chain that can lead into Sickle Rain so you don't have to run from every fight or spend the next 17 years trying to pull off one Heavy attack, and who knows, maybe he'll be viable again.
______________
Title 1.08 (6/1/17):
Roll - [Bug Fix] Shinobi is now immune to Guard Break while rolling.
Deflect - [Bug Fix] Fixed a bug causing the Shinobi to get stuck in objects after performing a Deflect.

Live 1.08.1 (6/8/17):
Double Dodge can no longer connect to Guard Break during last 300ms.
Double Dodge Kick area of effect is now smaller.
Double Dodge Kick stamina cost increased to 20 (from 5).
Double Dodge Front Kick range reduced to 4m (from 4.75).
Double Dodge Front Kick Uninterruptible stance duration changed to 300 - 600ms (from 200 -600ms).
Double Dodge Side Kick startup duration increased to 600ms (from 400ms).
Double Dodge Side Kick Uninterruptible stance duration changed to 400 - 600ms (from 200 -400ms).

Developer comments: We’re adjusting Shinobi’s Double Dodge Kick in order to make it less dominant. The startup, range and area of effect adjustments should make it easier to dodge. We reduced the Uninterruptible Stance duration to make it more punishable with good timing. We’re also removing Guardbreak from Double Dodge as it was too easy to punish enemies anticipating to dodge the Kick. Finally, we’ve increased the stamina cost to prevent Shinobis from constantly spamming Kick – Back Flip.
Shinobi's kick does absolutely no damage, the change in the Uninterruptible stance is fine, the start up time increase makes it highly telegraphed for people to dodge, the stamina cost went out of proportion, 10-15 stamina would've been manageable with so many stamina draining Heroes in the current roster.

Title 1.09 (7/20/17):
[Bug Fix] Shadow Strike can now hit external targets.
Developer comments: Shinobi used to perform Shadow Strike on locked target, even after parrying an external attack, resulting in some extreme teleport situations. Now, Shadow Strike will target the source of the external attack after an external Parry.
[Bug Fix] Tackle can no longer knock down allies.
[Bug Fix] Tackle hit detection fixed.
Developer comments: Tackle hit detection had problems that we’ve fixed to make it more accurate. We’re also removing its ability to hit friendlies.
[Bug Fix] Sickle Rain now maintains current guard position.
[Bug Fix] Sickle Rain’s last 3 light attacks no longer display the Unblockable icons.
Developer comments: Shinobi had no active guard post Sickle Rain which could lead to issues, so we’ve fixed it in order to maintain the latest active guard. If you start Sickle Rain from a left guard, you’ll get back to left guard once the move sequence is over. We also removed the Unblockable icon on the last 3 lights. Since these attacks are not blockable and not parryable either, we’ve removed the icon to avoid confusion.
[Bug Fix] Removed Unblockable icons from Moveset description of the following moves:
Grab
Grab Kick Mix Up
Back Flip Grab
Developer comments: Shinobi’s Grab doesn’t actually have the Unblockable property. So we’re removing the Unblockable icons from the Moveset descriptions in order to avoid any confusion. This update was actually a good update that kept the essence of how Shinobi should be while actually fixing the bugs, good job on this patch Ubi.

Title 1.11 (8/15/17):
Deflect:
Teleport Kick range increased to 2.75m (from 2m).
Teleport Attack range increased to 2.75m (from 2m).
Developer comments: Shinobi’s Teleport follow-up moves will now connect if they are performed after Deflecting Orochi’s Storm Rush, Warlord’s Head Splitter Leap / Alternate, Raider’s Top Heavy, Valkyrie’s Hunter’s Rush. This update brought his close range attacks in line with the purpose of a deflect and made deflects viable.
Backflip:
[Bug Fix] In a mirror match-up, Shinobi can no longer Teleport if the enemy uses Back Flip after being Deflected.
Developer comments: There was a bug in which one Shinobi who would Deflect into Teleport against another Shinobi who would Back Flip away caused very disorienting character positioning and camera rotation for both players.
Guard Break:
[Bug Fix] Counter timing on long range Guard Break is now consistent with regular Guard Break.
Tackle:
[Bug Fix] Tackle can no longer hit enemies on higher ground.
Throws:
[Bug Fix] Fixed a visual bug where characters would appear to partially enter obstacles when Shinobi would use a Throw while they’re right beside the obstacle.

Live 1 (8/31/17):
Shinobi's Tackle sprint speed requirement increased to 5m/s (from 3m/s).
Developer Comments: Shinobi’s Tackle could be triggered very quickly after initiating Sprint because the speed requirement to enable the Tackle was low, causing exploits as we’ve seen on the Raider’s Stampede Charge. To avoid the same type of exploit on Shinobi, we’ve also increased the Sprint speed requirement to trigger Tackle.

Title 1.14.1 (10/5/17):
Double Dodge stamina cost decreased to 24 (from 29).
Double Dodge Kick stamina cost decreased to 10 (from 20).
Back Flip stamina cost decreased to 12 (from 17).
Front Roll stamina cost decreased to 12 (from 17).
Reflex Guard duration increased to 800ms (from 600ms).
**Developer comments: We have noticed some players have difficulty blocking with the Shinobi. We have increased the timing of the reflex guard to facilitate the block but the duration is still shorter than other assassins such as the Peacekeeper or the Orochi. We would like the playstyle of the Shinobi to focus on dodge and repositioning instead of block. The stamina reduction on some dodge moves is meant to promote this playstyle.
[Balancing] Health has been increased to 110 (from 90).
Developer Comments: Shinobi gets a small boost to survivability here. The intention is to help it live after a mistake in 1v1 Duels, or survive a bit more damage in group fights.
[Bug Fix] Reduced Shinobi's window to bump the opponent with the “Tackle” by 400ms.
Developer Comments: Note that this doesn't make the attack hit any earlier, but shortens the amount of time the Shinobi can "late hit" the opponent.
[Bug Fix] Shinobi now properly enters the unbalance state when they perform a “Grab” followed by a heavy attack and the opponent activates Revenge.
[Bug Fix] Ledge drop animation fixed.
[Bug Fix] Shinobi input for cancelling a charge edge case now fixed.
[Bug Fix] Added the bleed icon on “Teleport” light attack and “Teleport Kick” in the Moveset page.
[Bug Fix] Knees no longer clips through the ground during the “Epic Tantrum” emote.

Title 1.15 (11/14/17):
Guardbreak input buffer has been increased from Forward Dodge to make it more reliable.

Title 1.17 (12/18/17):
[Bug Fix] Opponent falls off the ledge if the Shinobi performs a "Grab" move near a ledge. This is now fixed.

Title 1.18 (1/18/18):
[Improvement] After any hit, the Shinobi did not reinitialize his charge when Heavy Attack is still held. Now the charge of the Shinobi works (in term of input) like the charge of the Conqueror for example.
[Improvement] Shinobi is now vulnerable to guardbreak during the last 400ms (from 200 ms) of the “Front Roll Kick” Recovery.
[Improvement] Shinobi could perform “Sickle Rain” combo on an ally. This is now fixed.
[Improvement] When you perform a “Tackle” then lock your target just before the impact, your target was interrupted instead of unbalanced. This is now fixed.
[Improvement] Reduced the tracking of the Shinobi’s “Tackle”.
[Bug Fix] Shinobi was able to use his “Super Sprint” without consuming stamina for a short period of time. This is now fixed.
[Bug Fix] Updated the “Super Sprint” animation on the Shinobi, fixed some animation issues going from “Sprint” to “Super Sprint” while climbing stairs.

Patch 1.19 (2/15/18):
Reduced backward movement during Parry Reaction to match other heroes.
Developer Comments: This is so heroes with low range attacks can still connect, such as Warlord’s Top Light.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi to be interrupted by a Guard Break from an external attacker during the teleport behind his opponent after a deflect.
Developer Comments: This was inconsistent compared to other characters deflect. Now, a Guard Break cannot interrupt the Shinobi during all his teleport (when he is invisible) and during the 1st part of his recovery (before he starts to turn in the direction of his target). Technically during the double dodge Shinobi is invisible, yet can still be guard broken out of the invisible phase of the double dodge.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that cause the Shinobi to send the opponent in the wrong direction after performing Charged Kick mix up while he is not locked to him.
Developer Comments: The rotation speed of the target was too slow and do not have time to face the Shinobi when he hits him. Now the rotation speed is changed to allow the target rotation to face the Shinobi.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi Guard Breaks to sometimes affect the opponent behind his targeted opponent.

Live 1.21.2 (3/9/18):
[Bug Fix] We reverted the following change introduced in version 1.18
[Improvement] After any hit, the Shinobi did not reinitialize his charge when Heavy Attack is still held. Now the charge of the Shinobi works (in term of input) like the charge of the Conqueror for example.
Developer Comments: This change caused the Shinobi to be able to perform multiple Double Dodges in a row more easily than it was originally intended and made the timing to launch the kick much harder. Now, to restart a charge after any move or attack, the player must release and press the Heavy Attack button again.

Title 1.22 (4/19/18):
All Heroes:
[Adjustment] Back Dodge
Normalized all characters’ back dodge movement to 1.75m
Normalized the Back Dodge length to be 1100ms (which can be cancelled at 800ms).
Developer’s comment: Back dodge was too good, allowing players to easily and safely back out of combat. It also unfairly benefited fast Assassin characters. This nerf creates a standardized playing field for all back dodges across all characters, and makes it a tool that you now have to evaluate when to use. This goes against his "HIGHLY MOBILE" moniker, THE VERY THING THAT IS SUPPOSED TO SET HIM APART from the other Assassins. It also broke the ability to dodge backwards to force an opponent to dodge after you, and then dodge forward and kick. Yeah, it was a useful double dodge... That can no longer be done, because now it forces him to roll away instead of double dodge. you can now only DD left, right and forward, no more back and then forward. It's hard to understand, because if Berserker's niche is Uninterruptibles, and Shinobi's is supposed to be Mobility, why strip him of the very thing that makes him unique beside the useless ranged attacks?
[Adjustment] Deflect
While performing a successful Deflect, you have the “Deflect Defense” property instead of "Normal Block Defense” property, now allowing you to follow with another Deflect.
Slightly reduced the movement during the Deflect.
Developer’s comment: We noticed that using Deflect against multi-hit moves like Berserker's Zone Attack didn't feel as good as we hoped, since you Deflect the 1st hit but then are forced to automatically Regular Block the next 3 hits. Now, if you Deflect the 1st hit you'll be able to Deflect subsequent hits, including incoming hits against external attackers. We reduced the sideways movement so that you're more in-place, allowing you to count 4 Deflects against Berserker Zone Attack before launching your counter-attack. Shinobi's Teleport was made slightly later so that it didn't get beaten by multi-hit attacks.
[Adjustment] Shinobi Backward strafe speed reduced by 30%
**Developer’s comment: This is meant to be coupled with the global back-dodge nerf. We intend for characters to be less effective at avoiding combat.Again this goes against being "HIGHLY MOBILE", and even goes as far as contradicting your own Dev's words in Title Patch 1.14.1, "We would like the playstyle of the Shinobi to focus on dodge and repositioning instead of block. The stamina reduction on some dodge moves is meant to promote this playstyle." Just scroll back up and read it for yourselves if you don't believe me, or even better, go read the actual patch notes on the For Honor website.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi to perform an Out of Lock attack after a “Tackle” even after locking on his opponent. In this case, the “Sickle Rain” was not available after a “Tackle”.
Developer’s comment: Now, when you lock during a “Tackle”, at the end of the “Tackle” the Shinobi will enter in his lock behavior. Therefore, if the Shinobi attacks, he will make his normal attack, which is the normal behavior when you enter into lock.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the opponent to not perform external parries after parrying the Shinobi’s “Charged Heavy’s”. When a character parries the “Charged Heavy”, he can now auto-parry an external attack.
Developer’s comment: Parry on the Shinobi “Charged Heavy” has now the same property than other parry. When a character parries the “Charged Heavy”, he can now auto-parry an external attack.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused a “White Shield” feedback to appear on the Shinobi after parrying a “Charged Attack”.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi to have no feedback when a Guardbreak fails due to the opponent being invulnerable (for example during an attack). We added the same feedback you have during a normal Guardbreak in the same situation.
[Bug Fix] Kick now correctly checks if the opponent should be put into the specific hit reaction.

Title 1.23 (5/17/18):
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue with the Shinobi to stand up too quickly after having his Long Range Heavy attack parried.
Developer Comments: The falling to the ground animation was increased to 800ms (from 500ms). It is now the same duration than the Unbalance animation. Seeing as how he's light and supposed to be mobile staying down for 1 heavy would've been acceptable, but he's actually on the ground long enough for 2 heavies from Shugoki now.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi to sometimes miss the “Teleport Light Attack” when performed against specific attacks, for example the “Headsplitter Leap” of the Warlord. The range of the “Teleport Light Attack” after a Deflect has been increased to 3m (from 2.75m).
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi to become “Unbalanced” after being parried even if his opponent is interrupted and does not perform the parry.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that allowed the Shinobi to perform a “Deflect” into a “Teleport Light Attack” even after going OOS during the “Deflect”.

Title 1.26 (8/2/18):
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi to be unable to Counter Guard Break after Heavy Finishers is parried.

Title 2.03.0 (12/13/18):
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that allowed the Shinobi kick an opponent affected by Jiang Jun’s “Dou Shi’s Choke”.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that prevented the Shinobi's “Teleport Kick” and “Teleport Light Attack” to hit after deflecting Jiang Jun's Sprint attack.

Title 2.04.0 (01/24/19):
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Deflect to not cause any damage to Hyper Armor.

Title 2.06.0 (03/07/19):
Slide Tackle now starts to hit at 600ms (from 300ms)
Zone Attack’s 3rd strike can now be feinted.

Title 2.10.0 (03/07/19):
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue with Shinobi being unable to cancel his second Dodge into Attack if the player queued a stance change right before the Dodge.

Title 2.11.0 (07/25/19):
Stance Change Standardized to other Reflex Guard Heroes' time of 1100ms (from 800ms)
In all honesty, "Reflex Guard", no matter which Assassin used, is no longer a reflex. Merriam Webster defines REFLEX as an action that is performed as a response to a stimulus and without conscious thought... At 1100ms that is delayed, not reflexive.
Long Range Grab no longer beats Revenge Activation

Sprint Slide:
Only has active hit frames for 400ms (from 600ms) You're literally halfway through the opponent’s legs before the slide actually hits now, for a huge stamina loss on top of it. Usually you get light tapped or GB out of it before the slide even connects.
No longer beats Revenge Activation
Victim can now activate Revenge during the hit

Uninterruptible Stance:
The following Moves no longer have Uninterruptable Stance:
Backflip
Roll
Double-Dodge Kick
Kick-After-Deflect
Kick-After-Roll
Sprint Slide
Sickle Rain (including on Victim)
Developer comments: Shinobi is already hard to hit, so we want to make Shinobi more vulnerable when hits happen. “Sickle Rain’s” change to be interruptible also follows our recent changes to Shugoki’s “Demon Embrace” - making bind moves interruptible on hit makes them less frustrating. Wrong, he is not hard to hit. Weak attacks, short chains, reduced mobility, delayed guard, unbalanced for far too long, useless range attacks; I actively avoid ranged attacks because it's guaranteed to leave him unbalanced, dodge delay makes his deflect useless now... In summation the movement and dodge nerfs with the guard changes and lack of uninterruptibles makes it easy to hit Shinobi. Not being uninterruptible, Sickle Rain never finishes anymore because everything will pull you out of it, and lets be real, Sickle Rain was his most dangerous move, high risk-high reward, even though unlike everyone else, it only targets one target at a time and doesn't have the ability to hit multiple people surrounding him. It's the longest startup on a heavy attack I've seen and the most work to even set up for it, and now it's not even viable in the gankfest that is FH, not to mention it's one of the attacks that cause bleed in his kit, and since I'm talking about bleed, let's not forget most bleed attacks can stack and his doesn't. His backflip now only moves him about the same distance as taking one step back, he might as well be doing a backflip in the same spot. Double dodge kick... Actually from the breach match I just had... It is now useless as that was his only opener, and without Uninterruptible, opponents don't even bother trying to dodge it anymore and simply light attack you right out of it. Heavy feint into deflect? Forget about it, all the timing changes make it to where his deflect is near impossible to pull off. At this current point he has no ability to survive a fight against even the Pikemen in Breach. Imagine being 1 hit killed by Jormungandr because of stamina drain, delayed guard/dodge, being easy to unbalance, and having the healthpool of a fly. No real ability to attack, defend, or counter. This is the current state of Shinobi, utterly broken.

I agree 100% as a shinobi main. You guys have broken the character. Its supposed to be a friggin ninja. Ninjas are meant to flee heavy hitters. Especially when a shinobi can be killed with two heavies from certain characters. Some of us dont rely on revenge mode to get out of sticky situations. You have slowed the shinobi down too much. Its stupid. Some good points were made above and i hope that you read this and reconsider what you have done with the shinobi. You guys screwed up and introduced a ninja into your game. Man up and let him be a ninja. Have you even played the game ? Not very many people played with the shinobi before these patches, so why even do this?

[Buff_Shinobii]

Shinobi has had a lot of issues. He is no longer mobile, his I-frames don’t work, etc. it infuriates me that his smokeless dash was removed as well, he is also unable to parry after a roll following an uncharged ranged heavy due to a sort of stutter that he has now.

I got everything off my chest in my previous post even though I know Ubi will never read it and they straight up hate him.

I’m with you man, shinobi is garbage now, I don’t know why I keep coming back.

If you want to see my previous post about my issues, here it is.

https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthrea...hinobi-so-much

[MalumEnach]

Yea, one of his best defensive moves when you dodge into the opponents attack and he goes under their legs. I cant even seem to use it because he seems sooo slow now. I cant even dodge away from a fight anymore. When i try, i just get murdered now. The shinobi should be able to get away from people if he needs to. I just dont get it. He is already a hard character to use.

Shinobi has had a lot of issues. He is no longer mobile, his I-frames don’t work, etc. it infuriates me that his smokeless dash was removed as well, he is also unable to parry after a roll following an uncharged ranged heavy due to a sort of stutter that he has now.

I got everything off my chest in my previous post even though I know Ubi will never read it and they straight up hate him.

I’m with you man, shinobi is garbage now, I don’t know why I keep coming back.

If you want to see my previous post about my issues, here it is.

https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthrea...hinobi-so-much