Hyper armor and variable timing on heavy attack | Forums

[bon_loui]

Probably the most toxic combination in the game.

First, I feel like hyper armor should only apply to momentum attacks, like jumping through the air or running. Maybe at the end of some harder to land chains. But why are we seeing characters that have hyper armor on their opening attacks? Or even on their second swing. It makes dodging out of the way a trade instead of an evasion. Even if I play ahead and anticipate a follow up swing, these heavy characters can hit me out of my dodges with broad swings. It's just too much and you can see it in the players people choose.

Anyways, i would say "not a problem" and just parry, but how about those characters with variable timing on their heavy attack? Or, heaven forbid, hyper armor and variable timing? Or, my favorite, unlockable, HA with variable timing. How are you supposed to time anything when they have complete control. They cant be hit out of the attack, you cant block up, you cant deflect, you cant superior block, I mean why even have us play the whole match, just give the squad with the most hitokiri the W. You're pretty much standing there waiting to parry. If you could guaruntee a dodge, that would be great, but, again, if you move too early they track you or just smack you with a 7 foot axe from the side.

And if these moves are so impossible to dodge, why dont all characters have this? Why does my tiandi not track with his palm strike that does no damage, but a hito can top hit you for 30-40? A shugoki can do a 180 to catch you with a hug? Cant be hit out of it. Cant be parried. What is this?

Like I said, I think hyper armor needs to be retooled. It should be a rarity, not the staple of anyone's kit. And the variable timed heavies need an obvious punish. An OBVIOUS punish. Or you need to give that tool to everyone to use.

[GoldBrady]

I can see where you're coming from. I only think Hitokiri needs a nerf on light damage, her kick only guarantees a light hit, and only allow 2 hit or 3 hit heavy chain. I can't see some being able to infinite chain. She should be allowed 2 or 3 like everyone else. If that's why people play her, then they could just play Raider, Berserker, or High Lander.

[bon_loui]

Hito can only do max 30 on anyside for her neutral heavy even in chains she cannot do more than 30, which is pretty low for a heavy. Raider is a vanguard and his top heavy deals 45 neutral. Variable timing is quite easy it just forces u to stop light spamming and instead reading the enemies heavy. Its not that hard really. It takes time but I can counter Hitokiri's and sometimes Zerks with my Tiandi. If i can do that so can anyone else plus im not even a parry god

Thanks for the 30, I was flustered forgot the damage number. Doesnt make up for the speed and consistency of damage though.

I guess what I mean is it's not fair to have these characters triple stacked with ha, ub, and variable timing on their attacks. Or even doubled for the most part. Look at black prior for instance. He has nothing, and what he does have can mostly be dodged. Hes a heavy. Why doesnt he get half of what the hito gets. Why doesnt he have shugoki hyper armor or tracking on his soft feint?

If they want special exceptions for some heavies, just give them more health. That's their role, right? Tanking? That's why mmorpgs dont give them best in game dps. Because you get situations like this.

Idk. Game just feels like its fishtailing. Wish we could go back to release when throw distance was a stat lmao.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I regularly play black prior, and he is by no means weaker than hitokiri. The bulwark counter is an extremely good tool that completely shuts down followup attacks, has the strongest offensive bash game in the game, and easy access to a 30 damage unblockable that also functions as a zone. You also have superior block on lights.

The japanese fatties are not well designed characters and are irritating to fight, but they are by no means unbeatable. Hitokiri has a quite weak kick mixup, his attacks are telegraphed, his damage is avarage, and he has bad recovery and very high gb vulnerability. Shugo is a lot stronger now that roll is nerfed, but he is still very slow and he also kept the bad whiff recoveries.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I disagree. His hyperarmor forces you to turtle, and with the roll disabled as counter, his final mixup is incredibly strong, with either high damage or self heal on success. He also has high parry punishes, his only real weakness is no easy counter against bashes (neither bp has one). Hyperarmored superior lights are quite broken.

He is also a very good 4v4 character with some of the best gank tools and incredible feats. His only real weaknesses in 4v4 are low move speed and rword team mates interrupting his demon embrace. He handles the role of heavies very well.

Ps: I just made myself the mood to play some breach with him...

[GoldBrady]

I disagree. His hyperarmor forces you to turtle, and with the roll disabled as counter, his final mixup is incredibly strong, with either high damage or self heal on success. He also has high parry punishes, his only real weakness is no easy counter against bashes (neither bp has one). Hyperarmored superior lights are quite broken.

He is also a very good 4v4 character with some of the best gank tools and incredible feats. His only real weaknesses in 4v4 are low move speed and rword team mates interrupting his demon embrace. He handles the role of heavies very well.

Ps: I just made myself the mood to play some breach with him...

I wish they would bring back the old Shugoki. I liked everything about him. He is also a meme lord next to Centurion. I also don't know how the quote system works as this my first time quoting. xP

[l3ordo]

I dont know if these guys who sound to be fine with everything are on pc But the game on ps4, dealing with variable heavies, hyper armored heavy chains are almost impossible to defend on 20fps cinematic consoles. that 30 dmg becomes a 60 everytime unless you give up on defending and let him hit the guarded side by chance.

The biggest complaint for this game is that it design team does not have a target frame rate. They would know why the game refuses to be a success if they spend a week with the game on consoles.

[bon_loui]

I regularly play black prior, and he is by no means weaker than hitokiri. The bulwark counter is an extremely good tool that completely shuts down followup attacks, has the strongest offensive bash game in the game, and easy access to a 30 damage unblockable that also functions as a zone. You also have superior block on lights.

The japanese fatties are not well designed characters and are irritating to fight, but they are by no means unbeatable. Hitokiri has a quite weak kick mixup, his attacks are telegraphed, his damage is avarage, and he has bad recovery and very high gb vulnerability. Shugo is a lot stronger now that roll is nerfed, but he is still very slow and he also kept the bad whiff recoveries.

He absolutely is weaker. I walk over them with heavy feints if they frequent bulwark counter, their unlockable comes from one side at 1 speed, and their sheld bashes are too telegraphed. They have no hyper armor to speak of and their kit comes complete with 2 hit combos. Sure you can chain into bulwark unblockable, but like I said, easy to parry. I'm talking about the variable timing WITH hyper armor. Sure I win sometimes, but it's a stacked deck against you. If you play a reflex character (pretty much any assassin) not only do you have a ******ed low health pool, but now half your hit is useless because you're trading 20 damage side dodge attack for a 30 heavy unlockable with (probably) a light follow up for what, 45? 50 damage? And theres no turning that tide. If they want to stand and trade with a light they're going to.

My point is their solution to any character is "add hyper armor" and blamo they're op. You can see it in the ammount of hyper armor characters you play in every match. It needs to be a rarity or a reward for a full combo, not a staple of a heros kit. Its insulting that anybody have hyper armor on any opening attack that isnt a rush attack, let alone a hyper armor attack that they can change the timing on to disrupt the flow of the fight.

[bon_loui]

Its been like this since day 1 tho ppl called Orochi cancer on PS4 but they adapted

Nobody adapted, everybody just got nerfed. Assassins are garbage now. 2 lights from an orochi is 18 damage. They can be guard broke out of ther dodge attacks. Nobody adapted, the developers just think handing out hyper armor is the solution for everything. They couldn't care less about creating an intricate sword fighting game anymore. You can see the lack of dedication in the combos they've chosen for the past 2 characters. Hito is a 2 hit combo with hyper armor and insane tracking. Thor is a 2 hit combo with hyper armor and insane tracking.

How did they fix shugoki? Oh let's just put hyper armor on everything he has except guard break. Yeah that'll do it. Its pitiful.

They need to take the game down for a week and roll out massive sweeping change across every single hero to give the game at least the appearance of balance.

Better yet let's see some people get fired and replaced. Bew blood new energy.

[bon_loui]

Just because you cannot counter something does not make it OP or Broken Im sorry. Plus ppl adapted Orochi is even faster now but he is still trash at high levels since ppl can parry his lights easily. If you get light spammed or bash spammed thats players own fault since spam is predictable

Yes, the inability to counter something due to ingame mechanics stacking unblockable(must parry), immovable (not breaking them out of it) and variable timing (better sit still and not do a damn thing cause who knows when this is coming) oh and my favorite, BIG *** WEAPONS that can smack an assassin out of their dodge moves. THEIR DODGE MOVES. TO DODGE. THE ATTACK.

So yes, that is op. Being forced into a 1 dimensional fight due to overwhelmingly stacked perks.

And orochi is faster by 34 milliseconds.

34 milliseconds.





34 milliseconds.