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  1. #11
    Gonna play both sides:

    Why I support them using only Pro-League: I am always a skeptic when a game relies on a small portion, not to mention the ELITE portion of their community, to dictate or at least have a larger say in how the game is balanced and designed. That being said, given how they play the game and how much of it they play, well I can see why they would have that power. If the game wants to stay ESports ready, well the people that play ESports should be taken a little more seriously. They want the matches to be fair, they want the matches to be balanced, especially if they want to keep getting paid. I don't think anyone on this forum can deny that Pro Players have experiences that the large portion of the community have never experienced. They have intelligence that we don't have, no matter how many hours you've clocked, and I would assume they use that for good. They know the game inside and out, they test different operators and how well they work or don't work with other operators, at the end of the day they have broken down siege to a science.

    Not to mention... some of the ideas the Casual community can have are pretty f***ing stupid...

    Why I don't support them using only Pro-League: That's just it. They don't make up a large portion of the game. I get Siege is supposed to be competitive, but it almost feels like it is moving in a direction that will only be nice to players who are willing to sweat their hearts out. Ranked is now following Pro-League rules when it just felt better when it didn't. Seems like changes want to be made against Casual that will make it more Elitist than it is now. Plus it just gives a big middle finger to the people just trying to put in their two cents. Kinda seems like we treat the word of the pros so highly that anyone who disagrees with them is just some dumbf*** who doesn't know what he is talking about. But just like Casuals, the Pros can have some pretty dumb ideas too. To assume that because they are Pro, their words are right and true, is ignorant. It creates a sort of hive mind where people who "resist" against the Pro's word are attacked.

    Basically... there is no perfect decision here. Pros will make mistakes, Casuals will make mistakes. If Casuals influenced more than the pros, you can bet your a** we'd be here discussing "why the pros don't have a say in anything."
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  2. #12
    Originally Posted by Blue.Blade Go to original post
    Because these operators 1) aren't quite ALWAYS banned (with the exception of jackal, I think that nobody loves him except me) and 2) like said by someone else, people want to play these ops.
    Plus, assuming that we leave pick n ban in, that is 7 ops already banned, leaving the opportunity for 4 more to be banned.
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  3. #13
    Originally Posted by DroneYoinker Go to original post
    Gonna play both sides:

    Why I support them using only Pro-League: I am always a skeptic when a game relies on a small portion, not to mention the ELITE portion of their community, to dictate or at least have a larger say in how the game is balanced and designed. That being said, given how they play the game and how much of it they play, well I can see why they would have that power. If the game wants to stay ESports ready, well the people that play ESports should be taken a little more seriously. They want the matches to be fair, they want the matches to be balanced, especially if they want to keep getting paid. I don't think anyone on this forum can deny that Pro Players have experiences that the large portion of the community have never experienced. They have intelligence that we don't have, no matter how many hours you've clocked, and I would assume they use that for good. They know the game inside and out, they test different operators and how well they work or don't work with other operators, at the end of the day they have broken down siege to a science.

    Not to mention... some of the ideas the Casual community can have are pretty f***ing stupid...

    Why I don't support them using only Pro-League: That's just it. They don't make up a large portion of the game. I get Siege is supposed to be competitive, but it almost feels like it is moving in a direction that will only be nice to players who are willing to sweat their hearts out. Ranked is now following Pro-League rules when it just felt better when it didn't. Seems like changes want to be made against Casual that will make it more Elitist than it is now. Plus it just gives a big middle finger to the people just trying to put in their two cents. Kinda seems like we treat the word of the pros so highly that anyone who disagrees with them is just some dumbf*** who doesn't know what he is talking about. But just like Casuals, the Pros can have some pretty dumb ideas too. To assume that because they are Pro, their words are right and true, is ignorant. It creates a sort of hive mind where people who "resist" against the Pro's word are attacked.

    Basically... there is no perfect decision here. Pros will make mistakes, Casuals will make mistakes. If Casuals influenced more than the pros, you can bet your a** we'd be here discussing "why the pros don't have a say in anything."
    While i know most ppl dont care about cod anymore they handle this much better. Its called separate builds with a playlist that uses esl crap that ppl can play.

    Unfortunately pros are ducks and want the game tailored to be easy because as you mentioned its their bread and butter. Honestly speaking they do not care if they ruin the game for everyone else. Thats why most devs dont 100% focus on them becauee it ostracizes their playerbase. Then you can tell that ubi is milking this. Why do you think they refuse to make any changes that would forcibly slow down the game. Because its not as entertaining as a fast pace twitch shooter. And thats not even counting that it completely pisses me off that as a console player im effectively forced into certain strats or metas by ppl who play a game completely different. For example you wanna know what the aids meta on console is. Finka, blitz, ash, dokka or jackal(when hes not banned), and insert cookie cutter op. Thats a farcry from what it is on pc. Most objs ppl dont even hard breach anymore because you dont even need to.
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  4. #14
    Pulu.'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Luckydevil_010 Go to original post
    While i know most ppl dont care about cod anymore they handle this much better. Its called separate builds with a playlist that uses esl crap that ppl can play.

    Unfortunately pros are ducks and want the game tailored to be easy because as you mentioned its their bread and butter. Honestly speaking they do not care if they ruin the game for everyone else. Thats why most devs dont 100% focus on them becauee it ostracizes their playerbase. Then you can tell that ubi is milking this. Why do you think they refuse to make any changes that would forcibly slow down the game. Because its not as entertaining as a fast pace twitch shooter. And thats not even counting that it completely pisses me off that as a console player im effectively forced into certain strats or metas by ppl who play a game completely different. For example you wanna know what the aids meta on console is. Finka, blitz, ash, dokka or jackal(when hes not banned), and insert cookie cutter op. Thats a farcry from what it is on pc. Most objs ppl dont even hard breach anymore because you dont even need to.
    Pro league is not fast paced twitch shooter, its more slow than basic ranked. I see that you havent watch pro league ever.
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  5. #15
    Raytheon...'s Avatar Senior Member
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    They're trying to push everything in this game more towards the professional competitive style while alienating a huge portion of their playerbase who just wants a fun casual or ranked game...

    It's getting worse every season and there's more Y4 and 5 talk of removing even more maps from the ranked pool like Skyscraper and Chalet and others and it's gonna get to the point ranked is gonna be a pool of 5 of 6 maps that literally nobody but the pros wanna play.

    This is why there should be different builds for comp circuit and us regular folks. I don't think they realize how many people they are driving away from this game with changes like removing secure area and others from ranked but pro league wanted it and they got it.

    Then y'all went and did this whole atk def thing with 3 on and 3 off which I can't even begin to imagine anyone who had a problem with the game the way it was before its like the regular players of Siege simply don't matter to the developers.

    I know I've been gone awhile doing the family thing but coming back to Siege now it's not even the same animal it was 10 months ago and I've lost a lot of Siege friends who left because of all of these drastic changes in the ranked queues.
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  6. #16
    Morfanos's Avatar Senior Member
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    Can anyone here name me 1 competitive video game , board game, sport, basically, anything that's being done on the competitive level... that is not balanced, modified or changed based on data gathered by looking at the best in their respective field?

    I'm not trolling anyone or trying to fight, I'm legitimately trying to find a single one and I'm unable to.

    They all can have different rules(that do not apply to the pro) made specifically for the casual players but the balance itself? Always come from the top.
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  7. #17
    Because the game has to be balanced at the highest level of play. Just as in any other game, sport, etc. You dont need copper-gold running any strats.
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  8. #18
    Sports change with and are influenced by technological and societal advances such as; video referees, professionalisation, advances in materials such as rubber and graphite and the media.

    For a game to become a proper sport it has to be kind of indestructible and everlasting and video games don't really have that quality. That's part of the problem with video games because they are still new and are evolving rapidly.

    With Siege you have a game that the developers expect not to last forever but that they want to ultimately make as much money from as possible. eSports forms part of that strategy by helping to promote the game on social media. That means the developers work with eSports to deliver the best competition for those who are competing. As long as Ubisoft believes it needs eSports it will support it otherwise R6S eSports will probably just wither out. In that sense the devs are always against the clock of when they expect Siege to basically die.

    The upside for everyone else should be that Siege gets constant dev support with new seasons and content plus bug fixes, patches and all the rest of it.
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  9. #19
    Originally Posted by Morfanos Go to original post
    Can anyone here name me 1 competitive video game , board game, sport, basically, anything that's being done on the competitive level... that is not balanced, modified or changed based on data gathered by looking at the best in their respective field?

    I'm not trolling anyone or trying to fight, I'm legitimately trying to find a single one and I'm unable to.

    They all can have different rules(that do not apply to the pro) made specifically for the casual players but the balance itself? Always come from the top.
    Cod and halo which have two of the biggest console esls both balance for casual and separate builds. More specifically in cod ww2 the M1 garand which was a two shot kill in the base game was specifically nerfed in their esl and the esl playlist only.

    It also depends on your definition of competition. Siege is just not competitive. Competitive implies fair and even playing field but between exploits and general glitches that is not present. Not to mention there are no clear punishments for doing so and ruining the competitiveness. wanna use a game breaking glitch you can as long as you don't crash the lobby. Which in fairness they are finally working on but we both know itll take forever to trickle down. I mean i honestly cant think off a time where there hasnt been a long standing bug going on. Over a year for sight misalignment fix which legitimately affected the mainstay of an fps, completely broken sound for over a year on console that they still havent fixed which makes for a very unbalanced game.

    Honestly speaking i get more fair and competitive matches playing cod than i do siege.
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  10. #20
    Morfanos's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Luckydevil_010 Go to original post
    Cod and halo which have two of the biggest console esls both balance for casual and separate builds. More specifically in cod ww2 the M1 garand which was a two shot kill in the base game was specifically nerfed in their esl and the esl playlist only.

    It also depends on your definition of competition. Siege is just not competitive. Competitive implies fair and even playing field but between exploits and general glitches that is not present. Not to mention there are no clear punishments for doing so and ruining the competitiveness. wanna use a game breaking glitch you can as long as you don't crash the lobby. Which in fairness they are finally working on but we both know itll take forever to trickle down. I mean i honestly cant think off a time where there hasnt been a long standing bug going on. Over a year for sight misalignment fix which legitimately affected the mainstay of an fps, completely broken sound for over a year on console that they still havent fixed which makes for a very unbalanced game.

    Honestly speaking i get more fair and competitive matches playing cod than i do siege.
    Except that this whole argument/thread is based on the fact that the game is balanced around the top 20% of the players base, not just the pro. We're not just talking about a few hundreds people here(ESL players). I could see an argument made if only the best of the best were taken into consideration but that's not the case.
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