LB's kit still needs more. | Forums

[TheUberDome]

You want the game to move in a more offence oriented playstyle, yet you cling to old identities of heroes which isn't healthy for the game. Every post regarding LB's rework asked for his offence to be improved, and whilst the changes made are good, it's still not enough. His attacks drain way too much stamina, and there is no mixup from his first light attack. All his heavies are so slow, do so little damage and can be interrupted so easily that they aren't worth throwing out. Yet raider on the other hand has hyperarmour heavies with softfeints and high damage. And I know the justification for LB's offence being so poor is because he has high damage parries, but 10 extra damage isn't really a good trade for soft feints and hyperarmour.

What I would like to be changed:
The GB vulnerability of his heavies. Right now you can try and parry an attack, and the person has time to feint that attack and GB you before the GB vulnerability ends. Now I get that if you feint the heavy then you should be punished, but you shouldn't be punished for reading the opponent and letting the heavy fly, and getting GB'ed anyway.

Stamina cost for attacks. This should really be applied to all heroes, but if you want the game to be more offensive, give players more stamina. Freeze has made an excellent video on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvlWyfaKuJ4&t=228s

Chain after first light. Either give him the option to shove after a light, or give him a light light heavy/ combo. I think the first option is better.

Stephan mentioned that the end goal of LB was to get to his unblockable, but there isn't really any incentive to use it like raider's zone. Having the unblockable be able to soft feint into a GB, or a shove, would really help with his offence, and give players a way to keep pressure on an opponent with LB, because they could mixup the UB into a shove, which leads to a light and another unblockable.

This final suggestion would take quite a lot of work, but I think it would be a good change without ruining his identity. Give him a chargeable shove, similar to what warden has, and let him get a heavy from landing the charged shove. We already know that LB can get a heavy after a shove, he can throw a heavy after a shove, so why not make use of that?

Please feel free to comment on any suggestions you would want for LB.

[Star.Princess]

The GB vulnerability of his heavies. Right now you can try and parry an attack, and the person has time to feint that attack and GB you before the GB vulnerability ends. Now I get that if you feint the heavy then you should be punished, but you shouldn't be punished for reading the opponent and letting the heavy fly, and getting GB'ed anyway.

It is ok, he is already have strong defence playstyle, there is no need to make it powerfulier. Also, I thought you want to improve LB's offence, but did you think about other characters? What they will feel against 150HP guy with biggest punishes and Aramusha-like heavies? I think heavies with gb vulnerability is most healthy for this game, you parry - you get punish if attack was feinted, that is how it should work.

Either give him the option to shove after a light, or give him a light light heavy/ combo.

I agree with such idea, but with such buff I would increase recovery on all chain bashes and would make them punishable for dodge-attack. Light+light+heavy and light+light+light chains will be cool too. Also I would give him increased tracking on 2nd chain heavy to let counter back dodges, or maybe soft-feint to gb from all heavies, it will also fix problem with unblockables or they need increased tracking too, or speed (top only). For such changes he need nerf as well. I would make neutral top light 500ms again with old range and with same block ignoring effect as on side light, also I would lower his parry punishes a bit, maybe HP.

[The_B0G_]

It is ok, he is already have strong defence playstyle, there is no need to make it powerfulier. Also, I thought you want to improve LB's offence, but did you think about other characters? What they will feel against 150HP guy with biggest punishes and Aramusha-like heavies? I think heavies with gb vulnerability is most healthy for this game, you parry - you get punish if attack was feinted, that is how it should work.


I agree with such idea, but with such buff I would increase recovery on all chain bashes and would make them punishable for dodge-attack. Light+light+heavy and light+light+light chains will be cool too. Also I would give him increased tracking on 2nd chain heavy to let counter back dodges, or maybe soft-feint to gb from all heavies, it will also fix problem with unblockables or they need increased tracking too, or speed (top only). For such changes he need nerf as well. I would make neutral top light 500ms again with old range and with same block ignoring effect as on side light, also I would lower his parry punishes a bit, maybe HP.

His heavy's are no where close to Aramusha's.

[Illyrian_King]

There have been so many discussion on why he is trash ;b

Buff him for heck's sake

[Sneakly20]

Lawbringer is much better than he was before. Everyone wants him to have a better initiation random other buffs. But what other buffs would you give him? I’m asking this question because going on the offensive against him is very risky. If he reacts to a light then you lose 50 health for one light attack. Heavy attacks vary.

He has a delay on his mid chain shove that is not very punishable. Moving this closer to attack would make him closer to black prior mid chain bash which is also very safe.

To the OP:
Stamina is a known problem so I will stick with you there.

GB vulnerability is something I do think can help him out.

Shove after light is possible. Maybe side lights only, top light is already good at interrupting several offensive moves. I believe in the warriors den they said they wanted to avoid light to light combos.

The unblockable heavy finisher on the sides are good , but for the sake of your post mid attack bash will probably get dodged more often that not. And there tends to be a timing where the heavy and the shove gets dodged at the same time. The reason we don’t really need that is because without spacing dodging lawbro finisher heavies isn’t an option to avoid damage.

If I remember correctly if you dodge the heavy then he can bash you for damage. Soft feint GB may work but that’s something that has to implemented to see.

[Siegfried-Z]

LB trash ?
Say that to PK, Warlord, Valk, Roch, Kensei. All are from the OG roaster and are weaker than LB despite they all had a rework or balancing pass.
Even 2 times for PK.

What about these poor DLC heroes desesperatly waiting for some love as Cent, Glad, Nuxia or Musha ?
What about HL or Nobu still having to deal with 600ms lights.

Yes LB isnt S tier. But Trash ? No, no.

He is in a good spot.

[Star.Princess]

His heavy's are no where close to Aramusha's.

Do not pull phrases out of context, I never said that, I said he will be like Aramusha if heavies will be invulnerable to gb if not feinted, not now, read the quote.

[Star.Princess]

There have been so many discussion on why he is trash ;b

Buff him for heck's sake

You are biased, he isn't balanced in terms of moveset, maybe too turtly, maybe with lack of strong offence, but overall he is strong, I don't know why you don't see it.
I agree wtih Siegfried-Z, if he is trash then who is Orochi, Valkyria, Kensei, Gladiator, Centurion? Are LB even to them?

[The_B0G_]

Do not pull phrases out of context, I never said that, I said he will be like Aramusha if heavies will be invulnerable to gb if not feinted, not now, read the quote.

"What they will feel against 150HP guy with biggest punishes and Aramusha-like heavies?"

I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to take that question, I know english must not be your first language, but sometimes it's hard to distinguish the point you're trying to make by the way you word things.

[The_B0G_]

You are biased, he isn't balanced in terms of moveset, maybe too turtly, maybe with lack of strong offence, but overall he is strong, I don't know why you don't see it.
I agree wtih Siegfried-Z, if he is trash then who is Orochi, Valkyria, Kensei, Gladiator, Centurion? Are LB even to them?

I think Kensei and LB are pretty close as far as balance goes, the others are weaker though, true.