Buff PK and valk damage | Forums

[TheUberDome]

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[UbiInsulin]

Title ^

Not uncommon suggestions of course, but you're welcome to go into a bit more depth.

[Siegfried-Z]

PK need some improvments in her kit, but not a dmg buff except a very small by 2 dmg on her light opener and dagger feint.

It is like people always forget PK add a lot of bleed dmg to her heavies and Dodge attack.

Atm PK dmg are kind of fine, her problem is her kit is empty : no UB, No HA, No Bash, No undodgeables, no specific moove, no CC... nothing outside of a free light parry softfeint and a 400ms zone.

[Star.Princess]

Atm PK dmg are kind of fine

Of course she need special mechaincs, but her damage not fine at all. She is counter-attacker and have 34dmg for light parry when Warden, Raider and Kensei have 40dmg, she must be kinda Lawbringer with insane punishes, it is her specialization. 42-45dmg for top heavy opener and 20dmg for top light opener, that is what she need necessarily.

[Vendelkin]

Of course she need special mechaincs, but her damage not fine at all. She is counter-attacker and have 34dmg for light parry when Warden, Raider and Kensei have 40dmg, she must be kinda Lawbringer with insane punishes, it is her specialization. 42-45dmg for top heavy opener and 20dmg for top light opener, that is what she need necessarily.

Counter attacker can mean many things, and with LAWBRO parry is whatis implied, but I don't think peacekeeper is meant to be a parrier in terms of coutner attacking. her title comes from dodge style counter attacks I would think. given tho her dodge attack kinda does suck.

[Siegfried-Z]

Of course she need special mechaincs, but her damage not fine at all. She is counter-attacker and have 34dmg for light parry when Warden, Raider and Kensei have 40dmg, she must be kinda Lawbringer with insane punishes, it is her specialization. 42-45dmg for top heavy opener and 20dmg for top light opener, that is what she need necessarily.

We are not going to see these kind of buff for her i think because this was the kind of dmg she has before, at least on heavy.

And thats the main reason she got severly nerf, her too high dmg.

-Her heavies are 31 or 34dmg on the opener and 38dmg on finisher if i am correct, it feels really decent.
-Deep gouge on GB is 40dmg.
-her Dodge attack have the highest dmg of the whole game with 28dmg.
-15dmg zone is fine considering it is 400ms and have some mix up on.

So as i said, maybe buff her light opener from 14 to 16 and dagger feint from 16 to 18 but otherwise a dmg buff isnt what PK need counter attacker or not Imo.

[rottmeister]

Of course she need special mechaincs, but her damage not fine at all. She is counter-attacker and have 34dmg for light parry when Warden, Raider and Kensei have 40dmg, she must be kinda Lawbringer with insane punishes, it is her specialization. 42-45dmg for top heavy opener and 20dmg for top light opener, that is what she need necessarily.

34 dmg for a light parry isn't THAT bad though. Nuxia for example only has a 30 dmg light parry punish. Even her heavy parry punish is quite low (certainly if you mess up the timing of the special punish, then she gets I think 10 dmg). Instead of buffing her all around I'd probably give her a few extra damage points along with the ability to softfeint a heavy (into a light) in all 3 directions and allow her to continue her chain after a dodge attacks (+ bleed attack). Assassin's aren't supposed to be heavy hitters (Zerk being one of the few exceptions). I don't think it's fair to compare the damage values of an assassin with vanguards or a heavy/vanguard hybrid.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

In my opinion, pk's damage is not the part we should rework. She is small and wears light weapons with one hand, with little armor breaking potential, and as Rottmeister pointed out, her deep gouge adds some numbers to her heavies, and her guardbreak punish is the strongest in the game (at least damage wise, you will probably die if a raider gbs you since you lose your total stamina bar).

The pk problems are the following:

1. Very, very bad mixup potential. Her chains, attacks are predictable, her dodge attacks and succesful heavies, as well as the dagger cancel, breaks the pressure.
2. While the individual damage of her attacks shouldn't be higher, her damage/second potential should be way higher- since she has hard access to her second light and her zone eats away all her stamina, she is just a bee poking you sometimes, while she should be someone who lands numerous hits on you unless you predict her.
3. Her recovery game is abysmal. Missing a heavy finisher leaving you open to a guardbreak is fine. Missing a dodge attack leaving you open to a guardreak is not fine- not even heavies with dodge attacks suffer that punishment, let alone other assassins (if you can even dodge their dodge attacks in the first place, half of them is undodgable).
4. She lacks any kind of pressure. Being out of stamina against her prevents you from killing her, but worst case, you will lose 30 hp to a light and a dagger cancel, there is not much risk involved if you don't dodge (which you don't have reason to). I barely bother, I just attack until I use up half my stamina bar and retreat to neutral, otherwise I will be the one losing my stamina in the end.
5. As mentioned above, her pressure is bad, not just because all her fancier attacks end her chains, but because her stamina management is abysmal. She still uses up most of her stamina with the zone if the second part is feinted, and the second part does not really worth the 50/50 it starts- you get 11 damage or light parried/you get 20 damage or heavy parried (and I am not even sure it's a 50/50, some characters probably have an optionselect that punishes both without risk). Her heavy feinted into zone costs her nearly all her stamina (which could be her only decent mixup, it really only works if you won't to finish off someone).
6. These things are natural and should remain as weaknesses: low range, weak aoe, somewhat weaker external pressure, weak against multiple opponents.

I recently made a buff plan to her:

1. Dagger cancel acts as second light in the chain.
2. Deep gouge acts as first light in the chain.
3. Dodge heavy acts as a normal heavy in the chain.
4. Zone second part considered the first heavy in the chain, executes and can be followed up with deep gouge.
5. Riposting stab (deflect followup) is hyperarmored and gives a 80% damage reduction. (To punish hyperarmor traders.) Alternatively, her Riposting stab should just break hyperarmor.
6. Bleed restores stamina equivalent to the damage it deals.


Feats that needs to change:

Level 1:Conqueror (good feat, bad for this character) has to go. For replacement, a feat that halves fall damage would be good and fitting for the character.
Level 2: Revenge attacks became a bad feat for assassins since there is no revenge in a 1v1, it should be replaced with a throwing knife feat (or an other crosdbow for less damage). Fiat lux needs a buff, it is just a far worse kiai. I think it should deal 10 damage again, with a smaller radius.
Level 4: Maybe a rework on the Last Laugh would be nice, some way to control the ability to prevent it from being wasted.



Valkyrie has the same problems, but in her case, her abysmal heavy attack damage should be changed, to at least 28 on the openers.

[Star.Princess]

-Her heavies are 31 or 34dmg on the opener and 38dmg on finisher if i am correct, it feels really decent.

34 dmg for a light parry isn't THAT bad though.

I am not saying it is low punish, it is just ok punish for all ordinary assassins like Shaman, Nuxia or Gladiator, but PK is counter-attacker, it must be low HP Lawbringer with a bit lower punishes and decent offence, Shinobi need changes, but he is an example which numbers counter-attackers must have. It just funny even if talk not about vanguards, but about other assassins who isn't even counter-attacker, Zerk for example who have this 38dmg top heavy for light parry.
I just want every hero strong pick in 4v4 and 1v1. We can see Shaman in duel, decent offence, but it still not enough to be necessary strong, it isn't only tier list, you can just take her and play against BP, Raider or Hito, we can't give every hero Zerk's offence, HA and safety, so we can compensate it with parry numbers, at least for counter-attackers.

[rottmeister]

I am not saying it is low punish, it is just ok punish for all ordinary assassins like Shaman, Nuxia or Gladiator, but PK is counter-attacker, it must be low HP Lawbringer with a bit lower punishes and decent offence, Shinobi need changes, but he is an example which numbers counter-attackers must have. It just funny even if talk not about vanguards, but about other assassins who isn't even counter-attacker, Zerk for example who have this 38dmg top heavy for light parry.
I just want every hero strong pick in 4v4 and 1v1. We can see Shaman in duel, decent offence, but it still not enough to be necessary strong, it isn't only tier list, you can just take her and play against BP, Raider or Hito, we can't give every hero Zerk's offence, HA and safety, so we can compensate it with parry numbers, at least for counter-attackers.

The thing is Zerk excells at a lot of things hence why he is one of the best characters ingame. Yes, she is a 'counter attacker' but that doesn't just mean parry punishes. You can counter attack someone by deflecting or doing a dodge attack at the right time. Both of which inflict bleed damage and allow her to better stack bleeds.

I think with PK we should more focus on her chains and allowing her to be a bit more of a dodge (and deflect) specialist by having them count as a first hit in a chain and adding other things. Sure upping her dmg is one way to deal with it, but I feel like more options would make her even better. Just look at Aramusha who's got his damage raised by A LOT a while ago yet he's still in garbage tier. You need to be able to hit the opponent to get damage which sometimes could be a problem for PK because nearly everything she has is fairly easy to react to: Just be wary of the zone, the top poke and the gb and voilà, you just countered her.