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  1. #1

    Just saw how mods are gonna work over on the PTS. :/

    Welp....as suspected....mods work in a way that restricts potential of builds, not opens it up. Sure you can use system or protocol in any slot, but the differences are ultimately piddly and add really nothing. If you have 4 defense protocol slots and add 9k health each, congrats you'e made it so you can take ONE extra bullet.

    Armor instead? 4 system at say 10k...40k. Congrats, two extra bullets and 3.5% damage boost if you use UF. Piddly in the end.

    Slots look to be the same now (as in same amount on same pieces) but the only difference is they are only offensive, defensive, or utility.

    This means THE ONLY WAY to increase damage is offensive...and offensive protocol mods are basically useless over system. And they will count as reds still...so every use takes you farther away from skills like UF, Spotter, OTR.

    Basically the potential for damage has been lowered since you wont have enough slots to make it to spotter or OTR if you try to go offensive...and if you go to spotter or OTR you miss out on the modes damage and even out again. All you did was spank down us damage types...not increased value of skills or skill based talents.

    It's all about bringing us all closer together...not increasing utility of every option as a tradeoff of damage potential lost. They are FORCING playstyle...not allowing us to choose and mold our own.

    SS is bunk...nobody save Rs and MRs will run it...and the only other tree with an offensive and USABLE perk (other than NPC damage mitigation) is Gunner. All PVPers are gonna be Gunner save Rs and MRs.

    I guess it isnt terrible for me...I'll lose 5% damage overall but gain 5% RPM via Gunner. But what really hurts is we all lose stability and HD (save Rs and MRs) which SUCKS (and the 15% DOESNT make up for it) and forces you into Gunner since specialist weapons are bunk and NOT better options given SOTG.

    Why not add some slots to gear? Make ANY MOD fit any slot but at the same time MAKE SKILLS AND SKILL MODS UNLOCKED BY ADDING TO THOSE SLOTS AN ACTUAL TRADEOFF vs their damage lost? Then we can really go the direction we want. That is customization..."making a build."

    But people will just stack mod slots with damage!!? So...wait for it....MAKE THE LESSER SLOTTED BRANDS MORE POWERFUL THROUGH THEIR BONUSES. Guess you cant though because skills are bunked and straight generic run of the mill weapon damage from guns trumps everything right now. Works for me cause I like shooting stuff...but I've been nerfed AT EVERY PATCH now.

    Making people a weaker potential overall to even out the field is a LAME way to do it. Like I said on paper I can see it's not a HUGE hit to me (since I get that 15% passive I wasnt using but kind of had via generics before now) but I've still got my options limited now, not really increased or improved/balanced.

    AT best you took 5% WD and my HD from me...none of which really matters in PVP...but you definitely boinked PVE'rs based on PVP balancing. I really just cant see how generics were causing that much of an issue? If you would make skills and skill mods ACTUALLY WORTH SOMETHING there may be some players that give up that 15 or 20% to use them!!! But nah. Just nerf the damage and further restrict specialist trees to even us all out.

    Ugh man....simpler and simpler we go with scripted and pushed choices made for us instead of our own.

    No beuno man.
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  2. #2
    Kwoung's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by SocialHandicap Go to original post
    Ugh man....simpler and simpler we go with scripted and pushed choices made for us instead of our own.

    No beuno man.
    Totally agree, there is obviously someone on Mount High that has a VERY particular vision on how they want us playing their game and changes the game everytime we figure out something that doesn't fit his or her vision. Put in tons of brands, talents, attributes and mods in to seem like there are a million possible choices, then get ticked off when people figure out ways to use them you never though of, and implement nerf after nerf until we all fall in line with "The Vision". Apparently, not only do they have a iron clad vision going on, they aren't all that bright at figuring out how players think, how we will play their game, or what we actually want out of it.

    They really need to get rid of that person and bring someone in that has a "Vision" for the continued success of the game instead.
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Kwoung Go to original post
    Totally agree, there is obviously someone on Mount High that has a VERY particular vision on how they want us playing their game and changes the game everytime we figure out something that doesn't fit his or her vision. Put in tons of brands, talents, attributes and mods in to seem like there are a million possible choices, then get ticked off when people figure out ways to use them you never though of, and implement nerf after nerf until we all fall in line with "The Vision". Apparently, not only do they have a iron clad vision going on, they aren't all that bright at figuring out how players think, how we will play their game, or what we actually want out of it.

    They really need to get rid of that person and bring someone in that has a "Vision" for the continued success of the game instead.
    Although i don't agree with your words, you my friend are suggesting right direction. The entire mod system is a failed attempt to add complexity to builds, but this game has much bigger problems then that,,, trust me...
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Kwoung Go to original post
    Totally agree, there is obviously someone on Mount High that has a VERY particular vision on how they want us playing their game and changes the game everytime we figure out something that doesn't fit his or her vision. Put in tons of brands, talents, attributes and mods in to seem like there are a million possible choices, then get ticked off when people figure out ways to use them you never though of, and implement nerf after nerf until we all fall in line with "The Vision". Apparently, not only do they have a iron clad vision going on, they aren't all that bright at figuring out how players think, how we will play their game, or what we actually want out of it.

    They really need to get rid of that person and bring someone in that has a "Vision" for the continued success of the game instead.
    The thing that gripes me is they KNOW what's up. The "gun" guy in SOTG said, literally said, "well guys were just stacking damage and offensive buffs in there and we didnt like that."

    Seriously... what do you think we are going to do when YOU YOURSELF have said the best defense in this game current time is a good offense? "To take things off the map quickly so they cant hurt you."

    You literally can NOT trade away 15 or 20% WD for something else...there isnt anything available as a realistic counter. You literally CANT trade away SS's stability and HD...there arent better choices. So instead of opening up more, and more powerful, choices in the tradeoffs everything just gets brought down (but up for weaker types) to a lower scripted choice overall.

    Unless you're an R guy...you just lost 20% straight up. Good thing you've got that extra crit damage you give all ability to roll WD, Crit Damage, DTE, HD via precision, WD via Devastaing , etc etc up (thus lowering that damage ceiling) because NO GEAR EVER rolls near max and if it does you need to use it to roll critic chance and get close to the cap...and it still means your extra damage is only good about half the time.

    IDK....just seems a bit frustrating overall. If loot RNG isnt fixed (which seems to be of NO concern in TU4) and we cant start seeing some of these higher attribs (and even then we're gonna need to raise the player power cap eventually) I see this game getting swallowed by Breakpoint or COD.

    Bring 515 gear that has a maxed attribute roll SOMEWHERE and/or A COUPLE average ones on it for Heroic end of mission bosses. Move the goalpost to min/maxed perfect 515s while we can rolls their attributes to our 490s if they match up and make up some headroom.
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  5. #5
    I'm fairly certain that the very first nerf was on skills via the radius mods and then via SP requirements. It's not useful to point blame at skill builds when we have had so little to go on since the launch of the game. I can point to several buffs that apply to gun builds but I can't think of any that applied directly to skills outside of gear sets. The assumption that this is about evening the playing field might well be true, but it might not be true. Skills are said to be going through a rethink with an update at some point (initially it was intimated that it would be TU4 but that has since been pushed back to who knows when), but that doesn't mean that they are the only reason certain gun based talents and mods have been reworked.

    Gun builds were and remain very strong, certainly strong enough for all of the content. There were always limitations as to what could be achieved within a build of any type. I would imagine that the same creativity that led to so many OP gun builds will reassert itself within the new limitations.

    Don't make Skill builds out to be the criminal in this excercise.
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by RichardOshea Go to original post
    I'm fairly certain that the very first nerf was on skills via the radius mods and then via SP requirements. It's not useful to point blame at skill builds when we have had so little to go on since the launch of the game. I can point to several buffs that apply to gun builds but I can't think of any that applied directly to skills outside of gear sets. The assumption that this is about evening the playing field might well be true, but it might not be true. Skills are said to be going through a rethink with an update at some point (initially it was intimated that it would be TU4 but that has since been pushed back to who knows when), but that doesn't mean that they are the only reason certain gun based talents and mods have been reworked.

    Gun builds were and remain very strong, certainly strong enough for all of the content. There were always limitations as to what could be achieved within a build of any type. I would imagine that the same creativity that led to so many OP gun builds will reassert itself within the new limitations.

    Don't make Skill builds out to be the criminal in this excercise.
    LoL I'm not pointing the "blame" at skill builds. You notice how I say the problem is CHOOSING THEM = no tangible and valued trade off?

    This isnt a statement that skills are to blame...its a statement that SKILLS HAVE NEVER BEEN GOOD ENOUGH.

    Current SOTG is INDIVIDUAL based...not team...and skills are not force multipliers they are dinky add ons meant to SUPPLEMENT (badly) your individual offensive power or serve as distraction/control so you can use your gun to put them down.

    In player vs player it's that individual offensive power and the amount of hits you can take that matters...hence why the meta is low red high health/armor compensated/spotter builds.

    Those bunk options need changed, reworked, AND BUFFED to come up to snuff. The answer is to not bring us all closer together via continually nerfing one thing down.

    Honestly the whole clutch/vector Widdz thing needed nerfed. No argument there. TTK was ridiculous and it just wasnt beatable...but this change to mods and trees is restrictive and DEV choice making in playstyle...not expanding and PLAYER choice.

    And AS ALWAYS we need damn gear with the higher attribs!!! Let's go!! Go back to 515 being the max re-cal level and drop a piece of gear with one max or a couple decent so we can min max to 515 perfect or roll our 490s at better than 1% advantage.

    Dudes have gone a month+ without swapping a gear piece and we are worried about generics and SS HD damage?
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by SocialHandicap Go to original post
    LoL I'm not pointing the "blame" at skill builds. You notice how I say the problem is CHOOSING THEM = no tangible and valued trade off?

    This isnt a statement that skills are to blame...its a statement that SKILLS HAVE NEVER BEEN GOOD ENOUGH.

    Current SOTG is INDIVIDUAL based...not team...and skills are not force multipliers they are dinky add ons meant to SUPPLEMENT (badly) your individual offensive power or serve as distraction/control so you can use your gun to put them down.

    In player vs player it's that individual offensive power and the amount of hits you can take that matters...hence why the meta is low red high health/armor compensated/spotter builds.

    Those bunk options need changed, reworked, AND BUFFED to come up to snuff. The answer is to not bring us all closer together via continually nerfing one thing down.

    Honestly the whole clutch/vector Widdz thing needed nerfed. No argument there. TTK was ridiculous and it just wasnt beatable...but this change to mods and trees is restrictive and DEV choice making in playstyle...not expanding and PLAYER choice.

    And AS ALWAYS we need damn gear with the higher attribs!!! Let's go!! Go back to 515 being the max re-cal level and drop a piece of gear with one max or a couple decent so we can min max to 515 perfect or roll our 490s at better than 1% advantage.

    Dudes have gone a month+ without swapping a gear piece and we are worried about generics and SS HD damage?
    OK, but maybe consider how you phrase it in the future? It certainly read as a "This is all skills fault" type of post. Skills do need a little love but they are far from useless. I regularly come in first or second on the summary and always have stars to go with it. I usually come in second on total damage done and first on skill damage too. That tells me that they are OK, but yes, they do need some help against named and elites at higher difficulties. I actually think that just including DTE on skills might be enough to go on in the meantime. But if there were one thing that I think skills need a boost on it wouldn't be damage that I'd choose first. It would be survivability.

    Maybe I've allowed some of my own thoughts to leak into my reading of your post? I don't know, but I'm going to defend skills where I can.
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  8. #8
    Kwoung's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by RichardOshea Go to original post
    Maybe I've allowed some of my own thoughts to leak into my reading of your post? I don't know, but I'm going to defend skills where I can.
    More power to you, they definitely need defending. I have played skill based or utility type characters in other games, and never questioned my usefulness, nor did any team mates. They sure do need some love here though. But if you keep posting you come in the top half or better on the EOM, don't expect much love to be forthcoming... Shhhh.
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  9. #9
    I haven’t played in over a fortnight and I don’t think I’ll be booting Div2 up any time soon. Seems to me now is a good time to take a break; come back in 18 months and start fresh. Every patch recently has just made me lose any will to want to play, and the decisions / changes that are getting made genuinely confuse me. I just don’t get why they’d make a half-change like this. It fixes nothing and frustrates current players.
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  10. #10
    i wish they would delete the whole mods at all

    so i need to spend less time in checking my inventory (every day) which is new or old or good or bad, because these marked items with an exclamation mark does not work, since weeks now (even it might get fixed soon©)

    i also would have lots of more room in my stash/inventory without these mods

    please delete all the mods thanks, its a waste of time!
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