Since they have nerfed raider dodge gb (side as backdodge) and they are making plans to nerf nobushi hidden stance too (which is I believe considered as a backdodge move), can we discuss about the other backdodge moves in the game that are considered as turtling instead of being offensive too?:

- Warden backdodge into shoulderbash. We all know that the shoulderbash on warden is a powerful tool, which is part of his characteristics. Yet the backdodge into bash move is kind of a turtling tool instead of an offensive tool. For example: When the warden is turtling and sees any light from any hero, he simply can backdodge into bash.

- Shaman backdodge into bash/dodgeattack/bite: This is a good move for Shaman, although you can gb the shaman when she attempts to backdodge into a bash/bite/dodgeattack. Yet the shaman can turtle with that move too: just stare at the opponent and when she sees a light attack, she just backdodge into bash or attack.

If we could nerf these or just completely remove all backdodge into bash from the game, then we can make a progress towards offensive fights. The warden may lose his backdodge into bash ability, but he still can side dodge into bash when he sees a light. Shaman can try to trick the opponent by dodging forward (without bash) and when the opponents sidedodges, she just can gb or parry the side dodge attack.

What do you think guys? Remind this: this is just a discussion, not a rant!