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  1. #1

    Any point to Heroic at current time?

    Was curious to see how AI changed after the patch so I play a bit this morning.

    Is there any point to Heroic...particularly solo...at this point? Honestly, now is the time to run solo since drones aren't in play, but the scaling from challenge to Heroic is crazy exponential.

    Challenge is a BREEZE and maybe 1/3 if not less of the time to run a mission in comparison...plus you get a checkpoint repswan if there is a bonkers F up (you've got to be pretty bad to get in a position you can't recover from on Challenge though) on your part.

    The reason I ask the question is I can't remember a SINGLE time where Heroic has produced a better gear piece than what I've seen from Challenge...solo or with a team. Sure you get 500 gear with heroic at EOM named types...but the rolls are the same on attributes. And the difference between 490s and 500 is nil with Heroic producing NO max rolled attributes for me ever thanks to what is horrendous loot RNG (apparently?).

    LvL 4 checkpoints produce 500 gear and are easier to farm. The scaling of Heroic...combined with the loot RNG that seems to NEVER produce a max rolled attribute and provides the same ranges at challenge vs heroic...makes me wonder is it actually worth it.

    Maybe in a team scenario where you have 4x the chance to produce a gear piece so long as you are all willing to share amongst each other...but I still can't think of a time where the extra, sometimes "bang head against wall" level, of effort of Heroic has actually produced a tangible reward. EVERY drop produces gear so you're gonna get your miserable chance at getting the right attributes/talent order no matter what but right now it seems like the attribute range is pretty much the same across the two...so...what is the point of Heroic?

    Challenege = same attribute range but more pieces of gear due to the faster rate (meaning more chances at a good attribute/talent order) so why ever run Heroic given the monstrosity that is the current RNG drop rate for a single max attribute let alone a piece with a good attribute/talent set AND one max attribute?
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  2. #2
    I noticed more high-end loot drops during a heroic mission and killing the boss guarantees 5 pieces of GS500. I usually solo challenging missions and find a lot of purples on the way to the final boss which usually yields 1 or 2 pieces of GS500 and the rest 495-499.

    Running a heroic mission doesn't take any longer than a challenging one if you have the right team.
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  3. #3
    Definitely NOT true.

    The raise in HP pools (armor and health) plus the higher damage output, meaning you definitely have to play more tight than loose, ensures it takes longer.

    More enemies (who have the potential of higher damage to you when you're hit) plus larger HP pools with the same team (meaning same offensive power on your end) equals the same time to you? Doesnt make a whole lot of sense now does it?
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  4. #4
    Like i said, if you have the right team you can progress. Your 2 or 3 teammates will certainly balance the HP pools depending on their builds.
    I'm not saying you'll complete a heroic mission in EXACTLY the same amount of time as a solo challenging one, but the difference of +- 15 minutes in not unreasonable.
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  5. #5
    There's the individual scaling of challenge to Heroic...AND the team scaling added on top.

    It's not really "balanced" out. Team variables are the same across both difficulties while NPCs raise exponential in number/health/damage.

    Also if you'll notice I mentioned challenging taking about a third of the time. So...15 minutes for a challenge run WITH checkpoints in case of boo boo...or 30 some (if you're running PERFECT) to 45+ minutes of Heroic with NO checkpoints and increased NPC damage plus exponential HP, all of which is for a couple more pieces of 500 that run the same RNG for attrib/talent layout and apparently THE SAME range of attributes min/maxes.

    Sooooo.....back to what's the point of Heroic?

    Better off running more chances at gear to get the ideal attrib/talent layout so you can set up for the attribute you WANT to roll while you wait for eternity to see a piece drop with that attribute maxed.
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  6. #6
    LubzinNJ's Avatar Senior Member
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    No point really unless you want the challenge. The "reward" of 500 GS items at the end would mean something if GS 500 items actually were better. You're better off just grinding out challenging missions and hoping you get a 495-499 item that has the rolls you're looking for.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by eckLub Go to original post
    No point really unless you want the challenge. The "reward" of 500 GS items at the end would mean something if GS 500 items actually were better. You're better off just grinding out challenging missions and hoping you get a 495-499 item that has the rolls you're looking for.
    Exactly what I was thinking. See my comment above yours.

    Since attributes generally come out in the same ranges regardless of challenege vs heroic I get more pieces running challenege and thus more opportunity at the arrangement of attrib/talents I want.

    Hell with the way it works you basically HAVE to have the talents RNG perfect if you actually want to roll attributes.

    The way it is now you basically are looking for that piece with the talents in place and "ok" values on the two out of 3 attributes you ARENT going to roll.

    That RNG has nothing to do with challenge vs Heroic (since it's about arrangement not individual attributes maxed) so the best opportunity at seeing a piece you want is more drops of gear in general, not the potential for maxed attribs.

    I can run two or 3 challenges to one heroic...thus it makes WAY more sense and I pay no price if I F up like you do in Heroic (since you start over when you wipe).
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  8. #8
    I kind of get why it works this way FYI.

    If they let us change 2 things it would be to quick a pathway to that "perfect" piece of gear.

    I'm just saying since they arent upping the chance at a SINGLE max rolled attribute (seems that way for sure) with Heroic there is literally no point in taking on the burden of it.

    If it was like 5 or 10% chance of a SINGLE piece dropping with a SINGLE maxed attribute from a named boss in Heroic I could see it being defensible as a reason to run it...but right now Heroic is generally pointless.

    Or so it seems.
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  9. #9
    LubzinNJ's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by SocialHandicap Go to original post
    Exactly what I was thinking. See my comment above yours.

    Since attributes generally come out in the same ranges regardless of challenege vs heroic I get more pieces running challenege and thus more opportunity at the arrangement of attrib/talents I want.

    Hell with the way it works you basically HAVE to have the talents RNG perfect if you actually want to roll attributes.

    The way it is now you basically are looking for that piece with the talents in place and "ok" values on the two out of 3 attributes you ARENT going to roll.

    That RNG has nothing to do with challenge vs Heroic (since it's about arrangement not individual attributes maxed) so the best opportunity at seeing a piece you want is more drops of gear in general, not the potential for maxed attribs.

    I can run two or 3 challenges to one heroic...thus it makes WAY more sense and I pay no price if I F up like you do in Heroic (since you start over when you wipe).
    Yeah after I hit post I saw you'd edited in more commentary that matched what I said. I've got two builds I'm working towards right now and it's just sad how over the weekend I ended up with 2, maybe 3 total pieces that are usable. Oh I've got plenty of pieces that have stuff I can roll over onto the pieces I need, but trying to get the perfect combination of a talent combined with 2 to 3 different red/blue/yellow possibilities, and then within those red/blue/yellows you still need them to roll the right bonus if you are planning on changing another one of the 2 or 3. It's just so horribly grindy with no real path towards steering it towards giving you a purpose, like if you want X piece it drops more here so play that mission, you just grind.
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  10. #10
    It's not sensible to farm Heroic missions becuase of the way loot is managed, but they're worth it to add extra challenge to the missions. Last week I rolled my best weapon damage attribute onto a chest piece with Payload on it, so... fix that please! No drones == no payload proc. Is it the same with all of the factions or is it just the balck tusk that got drone-nerfed.
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