Something every character needs. | Forums

[LightUpTheEyes]

1. some sort of bash from neutral or after an attack.
2. a way to protect themselves from gbs while dodging (weather that be a bash, an attack or just being able to cgb)
3. 500ms lites (take away the 400ms)
4. Just an overall nerf to dodges (meaning if you poorly time a dodge you get hit.) Poor timing on side dodge gets hit with side attacks, poor timing on back dodges get hit by top attacks. This should work just like deflects, except assassins do a deflect when successful and they get guaranteed dmg everytime. However, your gb protection move during dodges can extent your iframes.
5. Unblockables
6. Possibly varied timing on heavies. (It's much to easy to figure out a characters timings.)
7. No more gb vulnerability during chains.

[LightUpTheEyes]

Oh, and no hyper armor on any initial attacks besides shugoki, he's the only person that should have it.

It only promotes defensive play.

[Vendelkin]

1. some sort of bash from neutral or after an attack.
2. a way to protect themselves from gbs while dodging (weather that be a bash, an attack or just being able to cgb)
3. 500ms lites (take away the 400ms)
4. Just an overall nerf to dodges (meaning if you poorly time a dodge you get hit.) Poor timing on side dodge gets hit with side attacks, poor timing on back dodges get hit by top attacks. This should work just like deflects, except assassins do a deflect when successful and they get guaranteed dmg everytime. However, your gb protection move during dodges can extent your iframes.
5. Unblockables
6. Possibly varied timing on heavies. (It's much to easy to figure out a characters timings.)
7. No more gb vulnerability during chains.

1 i dont like how bash centric the game already is.... but i can see the purpose in this.
2 what? No. Maybe for assassins. But thats it. Since their identity right now is kinda supposed to be dodgy. But im still not sure this would be a good idea even for assassins. GB is the mechanic that counters dodging.
3 i personally feel 400ms do belong in some kits just never on openers nor with 2 in a row in an infinite. Again. Trying to make assassins as slow as other role will just further ruin them and their role.
4 again. You would further destroy both assassins and other classes. Dodging is not strong in this game. It can be countered with undodgeables. Witj certain sweeps or charged attacks. And with gb.
5 somewhere in their kit yes. But i still wouldnt want every jero to have to rely on them.
6 varied timings is a very powerful gank tool and in my mind definately shouldnt be in every kit. Thats what feints are for to a certain degree.
7. Im not sure how i feel about this either i would be more okay with vulnerability being reduced on slower heavoes mid /end chain. But i dont think people should be immune. It would break players with infinites in revenge for anti gank.

[Knight_Raime]

1. some sort of bash from neutral or after an attack.
2. a way to protect themselves from gbs while dodging (weather that be a bash, an attack or just being able to cgb)
3. 500ms lites (take away the 400ms)
4. Just an overall nerf to dodges (meaning if you poorly time a dodge you get hit.) Poor timing on side dodge gets hit with side attacks, poor timing on back dodges get hit by top attacks. This should work just like deflects, except assassins do a deflect when successful and they get guaranteed dmg everytime. However, your gb protection move during dodges can extent your iframes.
5. Unblockables
6. Possibly varied timing on heavies. (It's much to easy to figure out a characters timings.)
7. No more gb vulnerability during chains.

1) No. Game is already bash heavy as is. There are only 2 reasons to have a bash. To counter armor and to have an "opener."
Armor from neutral is the only problem and only 2 heros have this. As long as we avoid adding more characters like this it should be fine. and rather than giving everyone some kind of opener i'd rather they look at the blocking mechanic so that blocking an attack from neutral doesn't always mean someone's offense is over.

2) Considering the current game is to force people into a dodge no thanks. I don't think every hero needs a counter attack from neutral.

3) Pass. We need unreactable offense. This would be ideally done by them adding in varied MS increments instead of flat 100ms increments.

4) I'd rather a buff towards tracking and/or hitboxes than make dodges worse.

5) Nah. I'd rather we get pseudo unblockables instead. i.e blocking someone's attack can lead to damage or potential damage. like LB being able to shove if you block his heavy. Or Nobushi's hidden stance heavy granting her a kick if it's blocked.

6) Adding in a charge based move for all is something i'd be fine with if heros that depend on them (goki, hito, and centurion) got more in their kit to compensate for that global change.

7) No. Though I do agree that specifically chain finisher moves need to have drastically less vulnerability. As people will go out of their way to avoid them if they're not good most of the time because it's a free GB.

[Zombie.Face]

yes on the removal of hyper armor. NO more bash meta plzzzzzz.

[LightUpTheEyes]

Classes don't matter in this game anymore guys. Shaman is an assassin who has everything besides hyper armor at her disposal, Berserker being an assassin had the most hyper armor. Some heavy characters are just as fast as assassins and most characters have a way to counter gbs with a dodge that aren't assassins. Like lb using his shove or Kensei using his dodge attack. We will never see balance in this game if characters are not on a level playing field.

I don't know why anybody would be ok with being guard broken during a combo. This is something that has always bugged me. Someone literally grabbing you out of your momentum and you're in recovery so you can't even counter it.

[Vakris_One]

1. some sort of bash from neutral or after an attack.
2. a way to protect themselves from gbs while dodging (weather that be a bash, an attack or just being able to cgb)
3. 500ms lites (take away the 400ms)
4. Just an overall nerf to dodges (meaning if you poorly time a dodge you get hit.) Poor timing on side dodge gets hit with side attacks, poor timing on back dodges get hit by top attacks. This should work just like deflects, except assassins do a deflect when successful and they get guaranteed dmg everytime. However, your gb protection move during dodges can extent your iframes.
5. Unblockables
6. Possibly varied timing on heavies. (It's much to easy to figure out a characters timings.)
7. No more gb vulnerability during chains.

1. There's no need for every character to have a bash in order to have a viable offense. Soft feint options that are as good as Raider's are a much more interesting way to facilitate mind games and create a viable offense. It lets players be more creative in opening up their opponent and sustaining their offense rather than their offense beginning and ending around their bash.

2. No. This would create too much of a safety net for dodging and eliminate Guardbreak as a counterplay to dodging.

3. Yes on 500ms lights but no on taking away 400ms. The game needs to have elements of unreactable offense so you can actually attack your opponent. If everything is reactable then there are no mind games, no mixups and essentially no offense. It'll be back to staring at each other like in Year 1.

4. Dodging isn't that strong in this game that you need to nerf it. Charged attacks, undodgeables, sweeps that track, side heavies that track, AOE zones and GB are all direct counters to dodging that exist. Give more characters access to these tools instead of nerfing dodges. Open up the gameplay and give players more options in a fight, not less.

5. Somewhere in their kit, sure but it needs to be reasonable.

6. Not everyone needs a chargeable heavy in my opinion. I would first want to see what the developers can produce with their plans for "reaction reduction" and "more convincing feints".

7. This is heavily dependant on the type of chain. If it is an infinite chain with hyper armour or one with a chargeable finisher then there needs to be some risk involved. I would much rather more characters get given soft feints in their chains in order to create a game of reads and punishes.

Oh, and no hyper armor on any initial attacks besides shugoki, he's the only person that should have it.

It only promotes defensive play.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Hitokiri is the only other character that has it but until they do something to make her offense more viable I see no point in touching her neutral hyper armour. We definitely don't need any more characters with hyper armour from neutral though.

[LightUpTheEyes]

2. No. This would create too much of a safety net for dodging and eliminate Guardbreak as a counterplay to dodging.

It wouldn't eliminate gb as a counter for dodge, it would make it so the person dodging has an option to make a read if his opponent is going to go for a gb. The other player would have to make a read if his opponent is going to go for a dodge attack and could parry it. Similar to when zerk, valk, shaman, anyone with a dodge attack now. All those characters have it and still gbs are threatening to them.

As it is now, if you're a character without a dodging gb protection move (which is Very few at this point) then you are in for a very bad time weather you win or lose when dealing with bash heavy characters or anything that would force a dodge.

[Vakris_One]

It wouldn't eliminate gb as a counter for dodge, it would make it so the person dodging has an option to make a read if his opponent is going to go for a gb. The other player would have to make a read if his opponent is going to go for a dodge attack and could parry it. Similar to when zerk, valk, shaman, anyone with a dodge attack now. All those characters have it and still gbs are threatening to them.

As it is now, if you're a character without a dodging gb protection move (which is Very few at this point) then you are in for a very bad time weather you win or lose when dealing with bash heavy characters or anything that would force a dodge.

Still no because not everybody needs to have a dodge attack in order to be a viable character. Giving everybody a dodge attack, i.e. making all movesets more uniform would dumb down character matchups to the point where we're just fighting the same character over and over again just with a different skin and different looking weapons. 24 plus heroes all using the same type of moveset, no thanks.

You would also kill off the mind game in moves such as Hitokiri's kick/sweep hard feint into GB, Shaman unblockable hard feint to GB, Highlander kick/caber toss, Shugoki charged heavy cancel into GB, etc. Basically any move that seeks to force the opponent into making an early dodge. The option of GB punishes for early dodges would be elliminated from the game if all 24 heroes have dodge attacks. The heroes mentioned above would need to get given some kind of protected GB (hyper armoured GB?) for their mixup otherwise they will be saddled with a mostly dead piece of kit.

Everyone would dodge early, knowing full well they can cover their mistake on reaction to a GB indicator with a dodge attack. Parries would become the sole counterplay to this as a GB would become an extinct tool. But it's too easy to avoid being parried when you know your opponent can't delay his GB attempt whereas the majority of dodge attacks can be delayed, some like Tiandi and JJ can even be cancelled and stuff like bashes just bypass parries and GBs entirely.

So we get a game where forcing dodges from anyone becomes a pointless endeavor for the guy forcing the dodge and the depth in having a variety of character matchups shrinks to pretty much zero.

[LightUpTheEyes]

Still no because not everybody needs to have a dodge attack in order to be a viable character. Giving everybody a dodge attack, i.e. making all movesets more uniform would dumb down character matchups to the point where we're just fighting the same character over and over again just with a different skin and different looking weapons. 24 plus heroes all using the same type of moveset, no thanks.

You would also kill off the mind game in moves such as Hitokiri's kick/sweep hard feint into GB, Shaman unblockable hard feint to GB, Highlander kick/caber toss, Shugoki charged heavy cancel into GB, etc. Basically any move that seeks to force the opponent into making an early dodge. The option of GB punishes for early dodges would be elliminated from the game if all 24 heroes have dodge attacks. The heroes mentioned above would need to get given some kind of protected GB (hyper armoured GB?) for their mixup otherwise they will be saddled with a mostly dead piece of kit.

Everyone would dodge early, knowing full well they can cover their mistake on reaction to a GB indicator with a dodge attack. Parries would become the sole counterplay to this as a GB would become an extinct tool. But it's too easy to avoid being parried when you know your opponent can't delay his GB attempt whereas the majority of dodge attacks can be delayed, some like Tiandi and JJ can even be cancelled and stuff like bashes just bypass parries and GBs entirely.

So we get a game where forcing dodges from anyone becomes a pointless endeavor for the guy forcing the dodge and the depth in having a variety of character matchups shrinks to pretty much zero.

We need to bring the tier bridge closer together, without doing that then there will never be balance in this game. There are about 6 characters who can't do anything after dodging and out of those 6 characters, 5 of them happen to be among the worst in the game. So you're telling me it's fair for those characters? Nah, no way. This is why we see such a huge difference in fighting a Berserker as opposed to an Aramusha.
Their has to be some uniformity if we ever want this game to be balanced. Which I for one do.