Answer to Stefan on Lawbringer hyperarmour | Forums

[Soldier_of_Dawn]

Would adding HA to LB have any chance of creating a Valk rework situation, where some Valk mains think she is a completely different hero now (and have some nostalgia for the old version)? This is probably not a perfectly analogous situation, but this is just a thought that occurred to me while we're on the subject of changing identities.

If HA is a no-go (sounds like it is for the moment), are there other changes LB could use that go with the theme?

UPDATE: The flaming needs to end now. Don't talk about each other, talk about the game.

With all due respect, the Valk argument comes off as a straw-man at best. Valk lost her identity because a lot of her original tools were taken away in exchange for less original ones with exception of the spear sweep punish and light finishers. As a reminder, Valk's rework removed the following:

• full block from Shield Tackle when charging forward
• knockdown from a fully charged Shield Tackle
• stun from Shield Tackle
• dodge cancels from Shield Tackle stance and charging forward
• Shield Crush after a heavy attack - no more extended chains/infinite chain
• ability to charge Ram's Headbutt for greater stamina drain

We're not looking to remove 5+ things from LB but add only 1 trait, that being HA to heavy attacks so he can land them more often. Trading is a form of a counter attack so that would only compliment his theme and not change it dramatically. Like Siegfried-Z said, Valk's and LB's situation are not comparable.

The other changes I would like to see with LB are:

1. a chargeable and feintable Long Arm
2. cancel any chain with Long Arm after any attack before the finisher.
3. follow any heavy with a Swift Justice Finisher and let it count as a light attack in a chain. This change would give better access to LB's heavy finishers. As a result, change the name to Swift Justice Strike.
4. a chargeable and feintable Shove where when fully charged
   
   • wall-splats the opponent
   • knocks down the opponent when out-of-stamina
   
   
5. hyper-armour on Impaling Charge
6. the complete set of 3-hit chain attacks. I want all heroes to have a complete set of 2-hit chains/3-hit chains/infinite chains for better mix-ups and so the only thing a player needs to think about is the attack chain needed for the situation. A full attack chain set should be standard for all heroes.

[UbiInsulin]

With all due respect, the Valk argument comes off as a straw-man at best. Valk lost her identity because a lot of her original tools were taken away in exchange for less original ones with exception of the spear sweep punish and light finishers. As a reminder, Valk's rework removed the following:

• full block from Shield Tackle when charging forward
• knockdown from a fully charged Shield Tackle
• stun from Shield Tackle
• dodge cancels from Shield Tackle stance and charging forward
• Shield Crush after a heavy attack - no more extended chains/infinite chain
• ability to charge Ram's Headbutt for greater stamina drain

We're not looking to remove 5+ things from LB but add only 1 trait, that being HA to heavy attacks so he can land them more often. Trading is a form of a counter attack so that would only compliment his theme and not change it dramatically. Like Siegfried-Z said, Valk's and LB's situation are not comparable.

The other changes I would like to see with LB are:

1. a chargeable and feintable Long Arm
2. cancel any chain with Long Arm after any attack before the finisher.
3. follow any heavy with a Swift Justice Finisher and let it count as a light attack in a chain. This change would give better access to LB's heavy finishers. As a result, change the name to Swift Justice Strike.
4. a chargeable and feintable Shove where when fully charged
   
   • wall-splats the opponent
   • knocks down the opponent when out-of-stamina
   
   
5. hyper-armour on Impaling Charge
6. the complete set of 3-hit chain attacks. I want all heroes to have a complete set of 2-hit chains/3-hit chains/infinite chains for better mix-ups and so the only thing a player needs to think about is the attack chain needed for the situation. A full attack chain set should be standard for all heroes.

It is absolutely a strawman in the sense that I haven't seen anyone talk about missing LB's old identity as of right now. It's me wondering about a hypothetical community reaction to an as-of-now hypothetical change. But as we're on the subject of identity, Valk is the hero I saw the most related feedback on (often in a wistful "I miss the old Valk" sense), so that's why she came to mind.

And thanks for listing these changes you'd like to see!

[Soldier_of_Dawn]

It is absolutely a strawman in the sense that I haven't seen anyone talk about missing LB's old identity as of right now. It's me wondering about a hypothetical community reaction to an as-of-now hypothetical change. But as we're on the subject of identity, Valk is the hero I saw the most related feedback on (often in a wistful "I miss the old Valk" sense), so that's why she came to mind.

And thanks for listing these changes you'd like to see!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. However, the truth is the LB and Valk situations are polar opposites:

• With LB, it is a single change that we are asking for, which involves adding to his kit.
• With Valk, there were multiple changes that we did not ask for, which involved removing things from her kit.

If we ask for something and get it, we are very unlikely to say we miss the old build of that hero. However, if changes are made that we did not ask for, that dramatically change the hero for the subjective improvement or perceived worse, then we are more likely to complain.