🛈 Announcement
Greetings! The Division forums are now archived and accessible in read-only mode, please go to the new platform to discuss the game
  1. #1

    Idea: raid difficulty option for match-making

    So I just watched the live stream and I'm guessing the raid has one set (pretty hard) difficulty. On top of that, you're limited to two armor kits and the mini-map will be disabled. I get that a lot of focus is put on it being an experience on its own, but looking at other games that have raids, YouTube will have mechanic tutorials in two or three days and people in end-game will know exactly what to do and are ready to grind for gear.

    Proposal: Would an easier difficulty that doesn't have the armor kit and mini-map restrictions be a good idea? Implement match-making for that difficulty, adjust the rewards (no patch, no raid-specific drops, just decent end-game drops) and problem solved, right?
     3 people found this helpful
    Share this post

  2. #2
    Originally Posted by SuchAGoonie Go to original post
    So I just watched the live stream and I'm guessing the raid has one set (pretty hard) difficulty. On top of that, you're limited to two armor kits and the mini-map will be disabled. I get that a lot of focus is put on it being an experience on its own, but looking at other games that have raids, YouTube will have mechanic tutorials in two or three days and people in end-game will know exactly what to do and are ready to grind for gear.

    Proposal: Would an easier difficulty that doesn't have the armor kit and mini-map restrictions be a good idea? Implement match-making for that difficulty, adjust the rewards (no patch, no raid-specific drops, just decent end-game drops) and problem solved, right?
    We already have easy mods for all activities and they remove reason to go for hard one because of division design. Can't people leave a bit of complex content to people who actually like challenges or dumbing it down is the only desire people have left?
    Share this post

  3. #3
    I wouldn't open this can of worms...
    Share this post

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Helgerd123 Go to original post
    We already have easy mods for all activities and they remove reason to go for hard one because of division design. Can't people leave a bit of complex content to people who actually like challenges or dumbing it down is the only desire people have left?
    You can still play on hard or heroic, what do you loose if others can enjoy it too ?

    I just can't understand this selfish attitude, not only are they demanding that the raid is specifically tuned form them, they also insist that nobody ever has a different option to play it. Did those guys pay a lot extra to have the game designed for them ?
     2 people found this helpful
    Share this post

  5. #5
    XthefugitiveX's Avatar Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    301
    HELL NO..Leave it as it is.
    Share this post

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Helgerd123 Go to original post
    We already have easy mods for all activities and they remove reason to go for hard one because of division design. Can't people leave a bit of complex content to people who actually like challenges or dumbing it down is the only desire people have left?
    Oh, I have no problem with certain content being too hard or having mechanics that are very difficult to pull off with a random group at all. I should've been a little more clear, I think. Final Fantasy 14 has a system where there are hard and extreme mode for certain fights. Normal and hard are easily doable with random groups, but for extreme difficulty (on current content) you definitely need more experienced players. You can still go in with randoms, but that doesn't always work out that well on extreme.

    More casual players (like me) would be happy to just do normal or maybe hard mode. That way, we get to experience the content and, for me personally, I think it's fair if only the hardest difficulty would give the unique raid rewards.
    Share this post

  7. #7
    Yeah, I kind of agree that it should be left alone. We see this pattern over and over. Game design and development goes on for quite some time targeting a specific difficulty level while being mindful that the playerbase has plenty of people that want insane difficulty, players that want a challenge, and some players that want Call of Duty (COD).

    But the COD players -- who don't know they are COD players and may not even own COD -- complain that they can't do the aspects of the game they shouldn't even want to try. So challenging difficulty gets nerfed, and nerfed some more, and now you can't even tell mid-mission if you are on "Challenging" or "Normal". Last night, I honestly couldn't believe it and thought I made an error in setting up the mission. But it was indeed "challenging".

    Now before the next thing is even launched, players are already pushing for difficulty changes. Yeah, you would think that making difficulty level an option would work, but how long before the players that can't do "challenging" are demanding it be changed so they can?

    Whether or not MM should live inside the game, or externalized to third party LFG sites, to me that isn't even an issue. Yes, it would be more convenient to do it in game. But there have been plenty of rants here about how this random didn't know how to play, or had a bad build, etc. Sometimes you even get someone that trolls MM -- to get into a MM session and then play in a malicious way because it is fun for them.

    Is Ubisoft policing this? Should they? Can they? Probably not. It is hard for a publisher to decide to ban a customer. Maybe it should live outside the game.

    But again, that's another whole topic. I think that as soon as they go down the path of multiple difficulty levels, that eventually leads to diluting the game. In a perfect world, every player would know where they fall on the spectrum (casual, semi-serious, serious, and insanely serious) and understand that some aspects of the game just aren't for them. But the problem is, in most cases the players don't know there is a spectrum, don't know where they fall on it, and therefore don't understand that some things are just out of reach.

    All that said, I should highlight that "out of reach" means today. This game is outstanding in that if you choose to develop yourself further, you can move up the spectrum. And in these forums there are plenty of people willing to help.

    So I am OK with gating the raid experience behind having an existing crew or being able to use a LFG service.

    And one more thing -- this idea of "randoms".... everyone was a random somewhere at some point.
    Share this post

  8. #8
    They want to be able to say that only they can do it and that makes them better than anyone else. Just show how immature, childish and selfish they are. That's today's 20 somethings for you!
     1 people found this helpful
    Share this post

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by tcarlisle2012 Go to original post
    Yeah, I kind of agree that it should be left alone. We see this pattern over and over. Game design and development goes on for quite some time targeting a specific difficulty level while being mindful that the playerbase has plenty of people that want insane difficulty, players that want a challenge, and some players that want Call of Duty (COD).

    But the COD players -- who don't know they are COD players and may not even own COD -- complain that they can't do the aspects of the game they shouldn't even want to try. So challenging difficulty gets nerfed, and nerfed some more, and now you can't even tell mid-mission if you are on "Challenging" or "Normal". Last night, I honestly couldn't believe it and thought I made an error in setting up the mission. But it was indeed "challenging".

    Now before the next thing is even launched, players are already pushing for difficulty changes. Yeah, you would think that making difficulty level an option would work, but how long before the players that can't do "challenging" are demanding it be changed so they can?

    Whether or not MM should live inside the game, or externalized to third party LFG sites, to me that isn't even an issue. Yes, it would be more convenient to do it in game. But there have been plenty of rants here about how this random didn't know how to play, or had a bad build, etc. Sometimes you even get someone that trolls MM -- to get into a MM session and then play in a malicious way because it is fun for them.

    Is Ubisoft policing this? Should they? Can they? Probably not. It is hard for a publisher to decide to ban a customer. Maybe it should live outside the game.

    But again, that's another whole topic. I think that as soon as they go down the path of multiple difficulty levels, that eventually leads to diluting the game. In a perfect world, every player would know where they fall on the spectrum (casual, semi-serious, serious, and insanely serious) and understand that some aspects of the game just aren't for them. But the problem is, in most cases the players don't know there is a spectrum, don't know where they fall on it, and therefore don't understand that some things are just out of reach.

    All that said, I should highlight that "out of reach" means today. This game is outstanding in that if you choose to develop yourself further, you can move up the spectrum. And in these forums there are plenty of people willing to help.

    So I am OK with gating the raid experience behind having an existing crew or being able to use a LFG service.

    And one more thing -- this idea of "randoms".... everyone was a random somewhere at some point.
    If you can MM with 3rd party apps why not just have it in game? Makes no sense to me. As we have all these players screaming don't add MM so that there are no random teams. Yet randoms will be doing it through the apps any way!
    Share this post

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by tcarlisle2012 Go to original post
    Yeah, I kind of agree that it should be left alone. We see this pattern over and over. Game design and development goes on for quite some time targeting a specific difficulty level while being mindful that the playerbase has plenty of people that want insane difficulty, players that want a challenge, and some players that want Call of Duty (COD).
    Sure, I get that. But I mean, they already designed a mechanism for that: difficulty settings on other content. Difficulty doesn't have to mean just health, damage (and in this case maybe UI) changes, but it could also mean more or less heavy emphasis on mechanics. I mentioned Final Fantasy 14 earlier. To get back to that: normal mode has simpler versions of the mechanics. Some things or fight phases won't even happen. Certain adds won't spawn, the boss will have less attacks, positioning mechanics might not be as important or completely omitted, etc.

    I'm not advocating for a game that's so easy that everyone can complete all its content, leaving hardcore players without any challenge. But if large content drops are focused on content that's going to be inaccessible to a large group of customers, expect some people voicing their disappointment.

    Anyway, just my two cents. I just hope Ubisoft finds a way to keep everyone happy (I know I'm enjoying the game a lot so far). The most important thing is to remember that people being vocal, means they care about the game. So that's a good point to be at right now, in my opinion. :-)
    Share this post