Last threads with suggestions for improving orochi. | Forums

[TicioQ]

Hi every one,

As you may know I only play with orochi so I would like to enlighten all the problems that the character has now that I’m quitting playing for a time.

I evident that I don’t propose to change everything. I just want to enlight the main problems in my opinion so it would be easy to address if anyone thinks is okay.

Defense:

Orochi is supposed to be a counter attacker, so mainly based on defense and fast responses.

Issues;

1) Deflect:
The king of the issues. Orochis deflects are good in concept but not well implemented.

With the new state of super fast attacks in all characters, the light deflect normally trade damage or get interrupted and the slow one never lands.

Apart for that, the times (or iframes or what’re we) of sides deflects where reduce, so now is almost impossible to do side deflects. With the current state you will just get a GB even I the timing was good because you always do a dodge (even when before was imputed as a deflect).

Deflect was always extremely difficult and risky, but now you can’t use it if you want to win.

Ideas:

Assassins need desperately something unique. Give them back the old deflect timing!

Also, make a little faster the light deflect for orochi so is guaranteed and will not be a trade (if not, make it stop the enemy attack and the Hyper armor)

-Riptide strike:

With the change, ripitide strike was made a light attack so dmg reduced but gained speed.
I think that the main problem now is that all characters tend to be super fast. That means that they hit you before the animation or a second attack will hit you before your riptide hit them.
Being a light, the exchange is just absurd and let you in a very bad position.

Other thing that happens with this attack is that is slow enough to be blocked (or parried) by the enemy even if you are doing it just after an enemy attack.

Ideas:
Give orochi back the old riptide strike. The best would be to have both, so you can play mind games, now absent for orochi). Maybe making the heavy riptide inmune to GB, as it would be even easier to parry that the current one.

If not, maybe making the current one a little faster, so it will abound being block as easy. A reduction of the GB potential would be great, as now you can be GB in almost all the animation.





Attack:
I know orochi is not an specialist in attacks but is having a lot of troubles in this field.

- Lights attacks:
I heard a lot that orochi is an spammer. I don’t see it much on pc but could it be, I had fight with orochis that abuses the spam. But nowadays, I feel that the majority of characters are spammers.

Orochi, nuxia, berseker, gladiator, raider,valquirie, JJ, shaolin, aramusha, shaman, tiandi ....

Just some of them, but I feel that all have very gasta attacks or infinite chains that make them very spammy.

Of course I play on pc, I do not know in console (but I can understand their frustration with light spam).

WELL, my point; orochi may be an spammer but currently if you try to spam you will enter in a light interchange that will make you trade. And you will loose because of HP and damage.

Another thing is that, at least on PC (maybe I’m playing against good level players), 80% of your start lights get parried.

This makes impossible to attack first, and with the changes on deflect, impossible to play in general.

-lack of Unblockables

-orochi can open only with normal attacks, and a very deficient GB. They normally get parried.
So I propose a bash or an unblockable that let him start a fight.

This, will also give orochi the option to play in 2vs1.

-2vs1:

Orochi must be one of the worst characters in a scenario.

Right now he only do 3 things:

1) feed free revenge for the enemy with no cost or peril for him.

2)put in danger all the team with the feeding... and in the long run you jeopardise the macht.

3) make imposible to conquest or defend an point with an ally.

The situation is so ridiculous that I have suffered many times that an enemy just lock into an official and just defend against me.

The duel was over, it was impossible to me to hit him. Just because he targeted an official. Then you just can choose to leave or to fuel his revenge and die after. Is not a very pleasent way of playing.


Ideas: I heard a lot t about the Tozen’s kick. I really think that this one is a very good suggestion. Make it do a little damage so it could prevent the actual nonsense.


-Not being able to kill.

This point as a little in common with the precedent one.

As you cannot do damage in a Xvs1, if you are fighting in a duel you may be winning that as soon as an ally comes to “help you” you are out of it.

Then your ally will get the kill always.

I do not doubt of the intentions of my teammates, but it happens a lot and you end lagging behind in points and feats.

Even if you tell them that you have the fight and you can manage yourself, they will continue so you will have to leave to avoid the revenge feeding.

Is quite infuriating.



-Reach of the attacks.

As an orochi, you cannot pursue your enemy in an effective way. It makes no sense to me how I cannot scape a gay girl with an heavy axe but she can scape my light an fast warrior.

You don’t run fast enough (no more that the heavies) and your “lighting strike”, the one that is “doge up and light attack” is just to slow and do not have reach.


Idea:
Change this tracking attack so it is a little faster or has more reach, this way you will be able to cacht running enemies.


Last thing; the “zephyr cut” (I think is the name in English) is just a death trap. I never see any orochi using it, and with good reason.

The attack is just an invitation to parry and I think I EVER manage to hit with it a good player. Maybe remove the tracking property and make it a little different, or nothin special but a little faster.




Conclusion: I think that this one are my major complaints. Right now assassins in general are in a very difficult state. They have nothing special. Well, reflex mode, but is a very big handicap.

I only know about , and right now is impossible to play with.

Almost all te roster is equally faster but deals more damage with more HP on their side.

The only viable way of defence is parrying, so all the roster as the same gameplay at this regard. Orochi is supposed to be specialist at counter and defense but deflect is impossible to use.

It also lacks any opportunity to attack in a Xvs1 scenario and is a character that will make loose the entire team.


PS: I hope you liked my reflexión!
Please, feel free to disagree with everything I said as I just know about orochi and others have different points of view.

Sorry for the long post and I will fight again in some months!

[Inzzane_79]

You have good points but it´s too late for this game. Ubisoft showed way too often that they either don´t care or have no clue what they are doing. For Honor had balance issues on day 1 and keeps adding more by reworking old heroes and making them ridiculous and add new heroes that are just plain broken.

I only play FH now when I´m drunk cause that way I don´t care at all. Mortal Kombat 11 is so good I don´t see myself playing For Honor ever again (outside of the drunk sessions)

[Col.Bullet]

I just recently got into Orochi again and can safely support all of your points, TicioQ.
As he has only normal lights you cant contribute towards teamfights and get parried rather often. You can change up the timing of follow-up lights, but not the first one. When the initial light gets parried you are basically dead.
I propose the following:
1. Make Riptide Strike feintable and/or soft feint to gb/dodge. Your suggestion of speeding it up would surely help reduce the risk of getting parried, but only marginally in the long run. Maybe even give it HA for trading or change the move to counting as a heavy, although those don't seem particularely enticing to me.
2. Put more emphasis on his double top lights. I always imagined them to be perfect for counterattacking but not only do they not posess any special property to make them more rewarding, their damage was also nerfed long ago and instead given to all his lights, turning him into the current light spammer. For there is nothing else.
To counteract this I thought of buffing double top light damage significantely and giving them superior block property. This way the move will act as a interruptive tool on good reads and reward NOT spamming clockwise lights.
Nerfing his lights generally will no longer be feasable as compensation seeing as damage values have risen across the newer parts of the roster. But maybe make them 500ms instead?
3. Give heavies actual flow, as they currently are only used for hardfeinting.
They could be given HA, maybe in a way similar to Kenseis chains, although that wouldn't really follow the counterattacker ideal and only give them very niche use.
So for these I suggest softfeint options, too: Into GB, dodge and light. This way the Orochi would be able to play mindgames, something wich he very much lacks currently. Following with dodge+light would give the ability to react to the opponents action or simply change timings.
If that is to complicated, giving them variable UB timing akin to Shugoki/Centurion/Hitokiri would put at least some pressure on the opponent. Still, that would only work if something could be gained from not commiting to the attack or feint to GB, so my original idea still stands.
4. Tozens Kick has already been discussed multiple times as a substitute for a bash/UB. It could be implemented as a sort of blade blockade-esque stance from wich the Orochi could get access to special moves, maybe an UB. Generally it would give him a bit more survivability by having a defensive alternative to dodges.
Implementing it shouldn't be that complicated, seeing as it already is in the game.
5. Deflects should be worth it. Increase their window to parry timing and allow them to break HA. They shouldn't be defendable against, so maybe disallow the enemy do dodge from it, for example via giving deflects in general a stun property similar to Centurions charged Heavys.
They should be differentiated by practicality and always useful when achieving a deflect. Make the choice meaningful but balanced or just scrap different ones and reduce deflect to one move.
Allowing deflects in general to start chains could give Assassins an alternate way to get onto the offensive.
6. You mentioned his dodge attacks having insufficient range, so extending it a bit mit help with catching up to runners. They should be sped up significantely however, seeing as many characters recover their guard even on comitted attacks far too fast to not get yourself parried.
Having dodge attacks start chains should also be a no brainer for all characters that have them.

You made some very good remarks and I implore you to change it up a bit, even if he is your favourite. Give it time and maybe the Devs will look at him again. Until then, keep making your observations and possible solutions known.

[UbiInsulin]

Orochi is one of the more mentioned heroes in the community in terms of future reworks (probably still behind Aramusha and Cent, but definitely one I notice). Thanks very much for your detailed feedback! I've already mentioned the general concerns of Assassins/Reflex Guard heroes to the team.

[TicioQ]

I think that giving him hyper armor on heavies is a very interesting idea.

I wasn’t a fan before, but after seeing how Taider gains hyper amor in his attacks even after becoming an assassin... I’m in board! XD

[TicioQ]

Another big problem.

When you use the heavy deflect on a raider you will be hit 2 times (impossible to avoid). That is a total of 80 dmg that you receive vs 50.

Take account of the HP and you can see that it makes no sense.

I suggest to maybe improve the heavy deflect by damage (50 dmg is not so much seeing characters that can do this damage with a simple heavy) or speed as currently nobody falls for it.

Or nerf a little raider... that will be okay with me XD

P.S: Also also! Very important, a lot of characters with bashes are able to cancel the heavy deflect from orochi (examples; Valkyrie, centurion, warlord...).

Maybe it would be a good buff to make this deflect impossible to bash (I think is more important than give it more damage or speed)

[TicioQ]

I’m sorry for writing so much, but I need to ask.

How is it possible that aramusha and cent comes first than orochi and peacekeeper?

We are talking here about 2 characters that cannot win if they opponents decide to just block.

In higher levels is just impossible if they are good at parriying.

I really think this 2 needs a little update because they are, literally, unviable to play.