Lawbringer Changes. | Forums

[Okt0g00N]

First of all, im not saying this because he is bad, he is great, but some small adjustments would make him greater in duels and in 1 on 1 fights.

Shove
Neutral shove is now 600MS , also the animation is changed a bit, making him lower his body more so you can see it faster.
Also a UB finisher can be soft feinted into a shove that is 600MS and will track back dodges and side dodges, but won't track rolls, also animation wise makes him do a 360* then quickly shoving the enemy so it is easier to see.

Soft-Feints
Side Chain heavies can be soft-feinted into a Guardbreak, making him do a 360* like Raider does on his left heavy into Guardbreak.

Throws
After a throw, if you input a Guardbreak, it will do a fast Shove to further push the enemy and let you enter your chains.

Zone
Zone counts as a chain starter and if you parry and attack the UB zone will deal 25 damage, not 22 .

[Star.Princess]

First adjustments he really need is inability to do 2nd chain Light after Light Riposte and inability to do light Swift Justice Light Finisher after Blind Justice (with return of old 45dmg for it), I know he is counter-attacker, but 52dmg for light parry and almost guaranteed 35dmg for heavy parry (even without walls) is too high, I am LB main, but even I understand that is too much even for counter-attacker especially with 150hp and at least some kind of initiation.

Now LB is powerfullier than Raider (not only Raider matchup, but at all), he is S-Tier, there is no need to make buffs to him in 1v1, even small, it will be just unfair, why not buff Warden or BP in 1v1?
The real adjustments he need is adjustments in 4v4 ofc with nerfs in 1v1 (including "First adjustments"), he need HA on all, chain or at least finisher heavies and all/finisher heavies hitbox change because now it looks like you play Centurion with inability to viable usage unlock-tech.

[PonE-Sharp]

LB is powerfullier than Raider.he is S-Tier.

[Star.Princess]

Sorry, forgot that I talk with high level player who know how that game works and can judge about hero's placement in the tier list properly.

[Illyrian_King]

Oh yes dude ... oh yes ^^

[UbiInsulin]

First adjustments he really need is inability to do 2nd chain Light after Light Riposte and inability to do light Swift Justice Light Finisher after Blind Justice (with return of old 45dmg for it), I know he is counter-attacker, but 52dmg for light parry and almost guaranteed 35dmg for heavy parry (even without walls) is too high, I am LB main, but even I understand that is too much even for counter-attacker especially with 150hp and at least some kind of initiation.

Now LB is powerfullier than Raider (not only Raider matchup, but at all), he is S-Tier, there is no need to make buffs to him in 1v1, even small, it will be just unfair, why not buff Warden or BP in 1v1?
The real adjustments he need is adjustments in 4v4 ofc with nerfs in 1v1 (including "First adjustments"), he need HA on all, chain or at least finisher heavies and all/finisher heavies hitbox change because now it looks like you play Centurion with inability to viable usage unlock-tech.

Well, for the sake of OP let's talk about their proposed changes to LB rather than pivoting to other heroes. Why is LB S-tier in your opinion as an LB main? Haven't seen a lot of folks saying this, to be honest.

[KotoKuraken]

looooool LB being S-Tier? What a joke. Firstly, the parry punish for a light parry is 50 damage, not 52 (38 +12 = 50). Secondly, you have to get a light parry. All lights in the game are pretty much 500ms, which are often delayed down to 433ms or used after a bash, and many people will bait you into trying for a light parry. Thirdly, his heavy parry punish does not guaranteed 35 damage. It has a good chance, but not guaranteed. It's nice that he can get that much, but in order for that to be changed to just the single light riposte, he would need some actual good moves aside from parrying to get damage in. Right now his kit can be entirely avoided by exclusively backdodging, and his 700/900ms bashes can be easily interrupted or dodged since they have such a long startup. His feint game is also very weak, considering he has no softfeints and his hardfeints are still very early into the animation, making it to where it is extremely easy to see whether or not it is an actual feint.

And lastly, if there are any other players around, LB is easily poked out of his parry attempt and parry punishes, the things that make up 90-95% of his damage. He relies way too much on a mechanic that requires absolutely precise countering, and is constantly baited into getting punished far more often than he can push out that damage.

[Star.Princess]

Why is LB S-tier in your opinion as an LB main? Haven't seen a lot of folks saying this, to be honest.

Extremely strong defense against all heroes even bashers due parry punishes and shove after dodge, big health pool, at least some kind of initiation wtih shove mix-up.


He is obviously better than all A and lower tier heroes.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...wh4/edit#gid=0
5:5 (or better) match-up wtih Zerker, before rework he had 4.5-5.5 match-up, now the punishes are higher, also there is 333ms unreactable top light, well-founded 5:5 match up.

5:5 (or Better) match-up with Black Prior, he can punish him for bashes better than Conq, also shove is option select because immune for gb, also it is very risky for BP to bait by unblockable, one parry and minus almost guaranteed 35dmg (almost guaranteed 55dmg with walls).

5:5 (or Better) match-up with Raider, guaranteed 50dmg for soft-feint parry, 400ms top light can interrupt Kuripita.

4:6 (5:5) match-up with Conq, can punish bashes, can option selecting bashes, can even open Conq, because higher HP, 2x punishes, for Conq it is very unsafe to option selecting.

4:6 match-up against Warden, before rework he had 3-7 match-up, now he can option selecting shoulder bash, can somehow iniciate, continue pressure after heavy for gb (small, but +).

I see no obstacles to Lawbringer being S-Tier, maybe not the #1, but #2 or #3 well justified. In addition, I will say it isn't only my opinion, it is also opinion of famous high level player tournement winner Eternity who said LB is the most powerfull 1v1 character now (and as I known Setmyx said that LB will be S-Tier, yeah, that is too).

[Illyrian_King]

Extremely strong defense against all heroes even bashers ... at least some kind of initiation wtih shove mix-up.

Sry my dude I already stopped reading here ...

Extremely strong is wrong, since his block shove is gone. His parries are strong, but situational for heavies (need a wall) and rare for lights. Also 50dmg is nothing that other heroes do not achieve in an easier way ... Shaman's bite for a bleed or Cent for landing a ping with cutscene. There are alsp not S-tier right?

How can he defend himself against bashers? You must mistake him with Vortiger. If you talk about his dodge shove, this is a thing that also many other Heroes have or better.


There is no initionation with his shove "mix-up" ... it's too slow. People really react on it.

[Star.Princess]

Firstly, the parry punish for a light parry is 50 damage, not 52 (38 +12 = 50).

Oops, indeed.

Thirdly, his heavy parry punish does not guaranteed 35 damage.

Doesn't guaranteed, but it is still very high for 150hp big steel turtle.

his kit can be entirely avoided by exclusively backdodging.

All JJ's kit can be entirely avoided by exclusively backdodging, JJ became bad turtle?

his 700/900ms bashes can be easily interrupted or dodged.

Firstly, shove has HA, secondaly, try to dodge when you BP or Conq and stay in the recovery of your bash.

His feint game is also very weak, considering he has no softfeints and his hardfeints are still early into the animation, making it to where it is extremely easy to see whether or not it is an actual feint.

JJ can be parried by animation/indicator too, but what will you parry if he stay and parry you? Turtle and play the timer? Side light, cheap damage, oops, you must attack or lose.

LB is easily poked out of his parry attempt and parry punishes.

That is why he had 4.5-5.5 match-up against Berserker.