Taking steps forward while taking steps back. | Forums

[FerroMortem]

Increasing the level of immersive gameplay mechanics is a good step forward but personally speaking, I think the supervillain Sci-Fi setting and gimmicky video game enemy types (that look like destiny characters wearing masks and clokes ) instead of a real country and grounded enemy types is a monumental mistake that kills all believable world building off the bat even if tech like some of these drones exist and will be a larger and larger part of warfare most shown are hardly grounded in reality and more importantly is it even enjoyable to fight them? Personally, I don't think it is. We didn't need another Sci-Fi game the market is already saturated.

[B_616e6f6e]

Exactly. I was hoping it would take place in Africa or something.

[DanHibikiFanXM]

Apparently no AI squadmates either. I just can’t comprehend a GR with no AI squadmates. How completely brain dead do you have to be as a developer/publisher? I’m stunned.

[FerroMortem]

Honestly, if it didn't say ghost recon I wouldn't ever have guessed it was the next ghost game. The enemy cliche enemy types are really offputting makes it seem like every other Ubi title or Sci-fi game one the market why are their people wearing bomb suites carrying M134 mini guns it's f#%$ dumb no way around that, and I highly doubt any former SOF forces would willingly wear masks clokes and shoulder armor. Transformers tank like drones is purely sci-fi trash that is far from reality.

[FerroMortem]

They should have just made this a new IP altogether, I don't understand taking such a substantial departure from what wildlands was given that it was actually successful. They add grounded immersive aspects people have been asking for since the betas then throw out the game and gameplay that people wanted those immersive features for, making some Sci-fi title not even loosely grounded in reality.

[Ghost416]

I was sure it was a Terminator game at first.

GET TO DA CHOPPAH!

Oh, wait, wrong movie.

[FerroMortem]

Exactly. I was hoping it would take place in Africa or something.

I did too these were some of my ideas for locations and world building gameplay mechanics.

I would have picked somewhere in Africa as my top pick, maybe Nigeria/(a neighboring country) dealing with oil companies/mercenaries, rebel groups terror groups and civil war/coup attempt, or Sierra Leone/neighboring country like Liberia dealing with diamond trade rebel groups civil war or a coup.

Another option in Africa could be Mozambique and parts of a few bordering countries or The Democratic Republic of the Congo Rwanda (could deal with Cobalt & Lithium mining). With any of the aforementioned African countries, it's possible to have China be involved in some way either as a direct opponent propping up a hostile regime the ghost team has to undermine covertly by aiding rebels/previous regime military forces. Or the ghost team would have to actively try to avoid contact with the Chinese military/gov’t personnel. China's involvement in the development of infrastructure in return for access to resources/emerging markets in many African countries is extensive so it's plausible the ghost team might come into contact with them in one of the countries adding another interesting dynamic/faction to deal with.

It would be an interesting aspect to have to deal with border crossings getting procuring local safe houses/currency/arms/vehicles if needed after crossing into a different country legally or illegally.
Having different factions militaries within the countries could provide some added tension, as would cross-border conflicts between factions possibly having to deal with a coup's at some point either acting to support one or subvert one. Good world building is an important aspect that most games/movies fail at miserably if done right the game world should feel alive and things/events should happen whether or not they are instigated by the player.

Developing assets/relationships with local villagers and rebel groups when entering a new region... working with the rebel groups in the various countries teaching them things like fire team movements patrolling, bounding, formations, clearing buildings, ambush tactics such as Linear, L Shape, & V Shape Ambushes at either a Near or Far distance this would hopefully give them some character development as well as teach the player some of these tactics, Rebels should have more functionality such as being able to be given specific orders to do certain things like change formations, change the Rules Of Engagement, chain waypoints, or tell them to suppress a target, set up a defensive position/ambushes, assault or fall back etc....

Overall a much larger emphasis on clandestine operations incorporating "fieldcraft" & "tradecraft" aspects into the game, and having there be an inherent benefit for the player to blend in, and use common weapons/calibers used by local factions.

I think Civilians should have a larger impact on one's mission (and not just be aimlessly wonder about as set dressing) one could gather intel on targets/missions/convoys by asking them for information (one would have to choose the right things to ask/say to get information out of them, not just another NPC one has to press the action button next to, to activate a BS side mission but an actual dialog with multiple outcomes) this may mean bribing them. In addition, the civilians living in close proximity to hostile outposts/territory should be able to rat out the team to the hostile forces and would be less likely to help one of the ghosts as they would have to live with the consequences of being a rat in a hostile faction's territory.

One might have to dress in civilian clothing trying to get thru a checkpoint/checkpoints without being detected. One might have to bribe the guards at the checkpoint (maybe have some sort of random factor to cause the player to be detected. Or if they don't bribe them well enough they don't let you pass) the catch is that the team only has a certain amount of cash to bribe people with for parts of the game, be that guards or civilians (to get intel or to not have the civilians not give you up to the enemy, depending on the relative distance or scope of influence the hostile faction has on the civilians they would be more or less inclined to help or rat you out.) If it goes south at the checkpoint the team would have to escape and evade or if the checkpoint is to heavily reinforced the team is compromised (possibly have a capture system where the team members that are caught go to a local jail one could break out of/have people break them out or bribe the guards or get interrogated).

Survival is another aspect that could be explored in a subtle nonabrasive manner. Arguably there is not enough emphasis put on the clandestine operations with minimal support in a hostile country, a survival component in the game could improve that as well as the bribing system above. It would be great to see on "ghost difficulty" to have ones clothing actually impact the wellbeing/health (for lack of a better term) of the player. The player would have to source shelter water and food. Shelter could encompass one's clothing and a safe house/or a base camp in a given region.
One could have to gather water periodically, same goes for eating rations stealing/buying food or hunting (not to the point it's a nuisance though something like every 4-6 real world hours not enough to be annoying but enough to impact gameplay occasionally). If one is hungry/thirsty they would have less energy to do things. They would get more fatigued at a faster rate, it would take longer to recover stamina. If one is too cold they would be less accurate and wouldn't be as quick at doing things like switching guns, equipment, reloading, etc.. and maybe more scope sway as a result.

Mobility & Gear/Ammo count being affected by what Guns, Calibers, Backpacks, Plate Carriers, Chest Rigs, that one chooses impacts what one has available to them during a mission and their mobility. Didn't pack the bolt cutters too bad, didn't wear a plate carrier on a direct action raid go down in a few shots, didn't consider the weight of your gear/gun/caliber choice now your slower with less stamina.

Making the team's vehicle more useful by having storage for additional weapons ammo gear as well as having a winch jerry cans & snorkel storage of heavy weapons like an M107A1, MK32A1, CARL-GUSTAF M4, and possibly tripod mounted crew-served weapons like the General Dynamics .338NM LWMMG or .50 BMG XM806 one can move around to set up ambushes/defensive positions.
To make travel between areas more engaging and add a bit of tension having the need to fill up the cars with at gas stations/safe houses/or with jerry cans in case one runs out of gas in remote areas. Having areas on roads where one can get stuck in mud/sand/water after which one would need to use a winch/recovery kit to get out, as well as including flat tires/engine problems being a random/very rare occurrence and more commonplace for NPC vehicles, 4x4's should be noticeably more capable than standard front or rear wheel drive vehicles.

Ballistics being based on real-world caliber, barrel length, and ammunition data and not made up. As well as including optics with functioning holdovers, Ballistic Drop Compensators, and Auto-Ranging markings on the reticles. Example: https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/w...S-reticle4.png

The inclusion of Ammo choice.
-Armor Piercing
rounds (better penetration) and possibly velocity.
-Boat Tail Hollow Points.
So as to increase terminal/external ballistics and not to over penetrate one's intended target causing the projectile to strike something that would compromise one's presence to the enemy or harm an HVT or noncombatants.
-Supersonic/Subsonic Ammo.
option to use either subsonic or supersonic ammo for suppressed firearms as an option so as to get better bullet velocity lethality and trajectory with supersonic rounds with the trade-off being the report of the round breaking the sound barrier down range. Subsonic ammo being much quieter but has decreased velocity/lethality.


The Philippian archipelago would be a great setting for the next game:
It Has an erratic and Tyrannical head of state.
Is at the forefront of a violent & brutal Drug War.
Is in the midst of a rise in Religious Extreamest & Terrorist Activity.
Is a key player in a major Geopolitical Flashpoint in the South China Sea both territorial disputes and superpowers like the US and China vying for influence over the country each positioned in interesting ways with the US having multiple military bases around the country and China becoming a more strategic trade partner.
The Green Berets have close military connections with their Philipino counterparts so there is already a relationship to play off of with local personnel.
The location could afford the use of US air support and other substantial military assets SOF specific or conventional as far as support or transportation is concerned while still having the clandestine mission set and the requirement of the team being an unknown actor in the conflict.

Factions at play could be:
Philipino Military.
Philipino Police (Corrupt)
Philipino Special Forces (Possibly spearheading a sanctioned coup attempt or aiding with rebel fighters subverting one or other conflicts with the other factions)
Ghost Team.
CIA.
JSOC.
US NAVY, Air Force, Marines, & ARMY.
Terrorist cells.
Narco-terrorists.
A rogue faction of the Philipino Military and it's political/military leaders involved in a coup.
Chinese PLA.

So long as they included a good amount of large Islands as well as smaller ones I think it would play well giving different modes of transportation more importance there could even be a system to choose one's infiltration or exfiltration by AI or player controlled vehicles like a local charter plane or boat, Helicopter, Zodiac, RHIB or SWICC Boat, Submarine or HALO drop between the islands and navigable river systems.
Interesting set pieces could include artificial Chinese military Islands off the coast as well as Chinese US naval presence static or patrolling, container ships or other large maritime vessels.

[B_616e6f6e]

I did too these were some of my ideas for locations and world building gameplay mechanics.

Holy ****, you just straight up posted the entirety of ideas we've written on this forum for the past couple of years



I'll just copy/paste this here:

The year is 2026. A proxy-war rages on in the central-African republic of Ubongo. The belligerents are: The Ghosts with moderate overt military support, a collapsed local government, china-backed rebels and, off course, Chinese special forces/intelligence agencies.

"China" could be replaced with an entity similar to CSAT in ArmA3. CSAT is basically a coalition between Iran, China and some African states etc. Now that I mention it, the enemy special forces should look more like A3's CSAT than Fallen Ghosts' caricature enemies. That would make the atmosphere more serious and immersive (believable and engaging).



Now, the mechanics is where this gets really interesting. First the Ghosts must liberate an outpost near the border. This outpost needs to be defended from rebel attacks until the local government can do that by themselves. While the rebels are trying to capture the outpost, the Ghosts must simultaneously rescue officials, raid depots for the local forces, destroy rebel air defences, take out rebel leadership etc. The dynamics need to be got right or this will turn into Wildlands 1.5 or, heavens forbid, a Far Cry lookalike.

For example, if the player captures an outpost, but doesn't call the friendly forces to occupy it, the rebels will recapture it after a while.

Similarly, enemy air defences deny air support (CAS, resupply, transport etc.) and they remain disabled after the player leaves the area. After a while, an another SAM battery or ZSU-type gun may be brought into the area. This would make the players plan ahead of operations, if they need air assets. This was something I missed in GRW. The potential to perch up on a hilltop and call artillery on enemy air defences before an airborne op was there but just outside of reach. Longer engagement distances (esp. with calling in artillery) would help too. If we use GRW as an example, the SAM launchers should be more permanent and have more range. 5km instead of the 500m. (Yes, I'm serious.)

Now that I mentioned resupply, the players should have a finite supply of munitions, with vehicles (that are semi-permanent units) being able to carry more ammo and rockets and stuff. Vehicles should NOT be able to be spawned. Rather, the players need to commandeer vehicles in the AO (or call in an air-drop for specific light vehicles), bring them back to a safehouse and then that vehicle would be available at bases/safehouses (at which the vehicles could be outfitted with ammo boxes, weapon mounts, armor plates etc.). Ammo can only be picked up from enemies that are using the same cartridge (eg. the player should use an AK if they want to resupply from the rebels etc). And NO, vehicles should not explode when shot with bullets! They obviously get destoyed, but they don't explode!

Another example would be enemy QRF. If the enemy spots the Ghosts, they will call nearby bases to send reinforcements (not like in GRW, where the QRF appears out of thin air). If the player for example destroys enemy vehicles or comms systems first, there's little to no QRF.

Later in the game there could be an intelligence team that sends updates about enemy movements in the area. For example, about enemy air-defence systems being brought to an area or enemy QRF moving from base to base.


Another important thing would be weapons and body armor. While the difficulty can be brought down, the Ghosts should not be invincible. Engagements with a stronger force should be brutal. That's why there should be a first aid system that handicaps characters that are hit. "Bullet resistance" should be affected by body armor, that only protects a certain bodypart (eg. a vest with level IV plates protect the torso from rifle caliber weapons). The player should be just as vulnerable as the enemies are. That's an another way to add immersion and seriousness (if that's a word) to the game; the player who's not on the casual-difficulty, can't just frolic about into an enemy base all willy nilly, like in GRW.



Oh god, what have I done. You know what.... I think I should get some work done instead of dreaming up the entire concept of GRW2

Edit. TL;DR: "GRW2" would benefit from a more serious atmosphere, deeper engagement with the mechanics and a more permanent and "alive" world. In essence; less width, more depth.

I really thought going with a fictional African state(s) would be the best way to go.

[Jedimindtrxx]

@Ferro,

That's exactly the narrative I wanted as well. Philippines/SE Asia.

All the things you mentioned were exactly the things I mentioned in previous threads over the few years, I'm sure we crossed paths and ideas.

The combination of storylines with multiple enemy fronts can lead to multiple storylines and just awesome variety.

Cry me a river thought right?

[FerroMortem]

@Ferro,

That's exactly the narrative I wanted as well. Philippines/SE Asia.

All the things you mentioned were exactly the things I mentioned in previous threads over the few years, I'm sure we crossed paths and ideas.

The combination of storylines with multiple enemy fronts can lead to multiple storylines and just awesome variety.

Cry me a river thought right?

I know I really liked your post on Mars's thread, you are one of the good ones on here who gets the potential of the game and the series.