Would it be fun with all heroes on Raiders power level? | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

Not very strong but "too" strong. It is what s tier means. Zerk offense, Conq defense etc
There is always something too good in their kit.

Thats why i talk about A tier as a better target. Look at Shaman, strong heroe without something too powerfull.

Zerk is S tier because he has no bad match ups. And this is because his weaknesses (short range and whiff recovery) can be played around to a degree if the player is good.
Nothing about zerks' offense is actually broken or too good. He's a very skill dependent hero. About the only thing you could say that might be out of line his the damage from his HAed feinted into light.

Currently there is no hero in S tier that is in S tier because of their offense. But both Warden and Zerk are in S tier and they have viable offense. Only other hero in the game that can come close to saying that is black prior and he's not S tier anymore.

[Sweaty_Sock]

Zerk is S tier because he has no bad match ups. And this is because his weaknesses (short range and whiff recovery) can be played around to a degree if the player is good.
Nothing about zerks' offense is actually broken or too good. He's a very skill dependent hero. About the only thing you could say that might be out of line his the damage from his HAed feinted into light.

Currently there is no hero in S tier that is in S tier because of their offense. But both Warden and Zerk are in S tier and they have viable offense. Only other hero in the game that can come close to saying that is black prior and he's not S tier anymore.

What would you rate the reworked raider as?

[Siegfried-Z]

Zerk is S tier because he has no bad match ups. And this is because his weaknesses (short range and whiff recovery) can be played around to a degree if the player is good.
Nothing about zerks' offense is actually broken or too good. He's a very skill dependent hero. About the only thing you could say that might be out of line his the damage from his HAed feinted into light.

Currently there is no hero in S tier that is in S tier because of their offense. But both Warden and Zerk are in S tier and they have viable offense. Only other hero in the game that can come close to saying that is black prior and he's not S tier anymore.

Skill dependant is very subjective.. i feel like the game is less skill dependant overall each new seasons because of how reworks are made or new heroes are released.
Atm the only really skills dependant Heroes are Valk, HL, WL, Musha, Nobu, Shinobi, PK, Glad and Cent. Imo

Zerk weakness is only his short range. And i would say it is more something frustrating than a real weakness.

He is not s tier because he has no bad match up, he has no bad match up because he is S tier.
Its pretty much like that for all s tier heroes outside of few exception like Conq hard match up Vs Shinobi.

I never ask a nerf for zerk, because s tier or not, i dunno why i always did good against even good zerk. I am very used to face him maybe because my best friend is a rep 68 Zerk main.

I just wanted to say he sit in S tier because when a good Zerk start his combo on you, you can pretty much wait and pray to still have at least half of your HP at the end ^^. His offense is extremly effective, fact.

Same is true for Conq defense. Both are very well known thats why i pick them as example.

Thats why my point was only to say A tier looks like a better target for the overall balance and health of the game.

[Sakura__Empire]

orochi + softfant + unblockble = raider
this is who we see y3s2

[Herbstlicht]

Taking your post in a different light Siegfried, may I say that a fight that has the possibility to shift the tides of battle a multitude of times is preferable to fights that end all too swift and decidedly?

Because, this very aspect, is something the best fighters can be proud about. For Honor however ends its fights pretty swift in many instances and often, there hardly is a good chance of recovery.

Just take Orochi vs Raider, eith the raider getting a good start and landing around 60 damage - not that hard to do. Even if orochi lands 60 on his own, his opponent only needs another 60 damage on him, whereas the raider would still be alive then. With all advantages at the raider - dodge gb, stamina damage, damage, oos pressure, HP, permanent guard. Like - how can this be fair?

But one problem with S-tier heroes is a safety that allows for a gameplay, non s-tier just can't pull off themselves. Either their recovery ard too high and thus there moves too risky, you can negate their offence, whatever. There is a real gap. And going back to raw power: the speed at which berserker can whittle down health is extreme. And he is hard and risky to stop.

[Sweaty_Sock]

Skill dependant is very subjective.. i feel like the game is less skill dependant overall each new seasons because of how reworks are made or new heroes are released.
Atm the only really skills dependant Heroes are Valk, HL, WL, Musha, Nobu, Shinobi, PK, Glad and Cent. Imo

Zerk weakness is only his short range. And i would say it is more something frustrating than a real weakness.

He is not s tier because he has no bad match up, he has no bad match up because he is S tier.
Its pretty much like that for all s tier heroes outside of few exception like Conq hard match up Vs Shinobi.

I never ask a nerf for zerk, because s tier or not, i dunno why i always did good against even good zerk. I am very used to face him maybe because my best friend is a rep 68 Zerk main.

I just wanted to say he sit in S tier because when a good Zerk start his combo on you, you can pretty much wait and pray to still have at least half of your HP at the end ^^. His offense is extremly effective, fact.

Same is true for Conq defense. Both are very well known thats why i pick them as example.

Thats why my point was only to say A tier looks like a better target for the overall balance and health of the game.

All the characters are skill dependant, its just that many now have moves that take alot more skill to counter than to perform. In terms of Zerk i'd agree he has no good counters because of his power elvel (the damage, speed, stamina, hyper armour and feint game)

[Sakura__Empire]

Well, we've always said that winrate data is not the only thing we look at. We have to be careful how we interpret 50%. It would make intuitive sense to interpret it as "decent/middle-of-the-pack", but I think we all know there's more nuance to the situation than that.

Anyhow, I'm making sure to track all the feedback on the Raider rework.

nerf this **** , stuning whit orochi speed , now he is real top light spammer

we fight Against him when we are totally blind

what the hell is this ?

[Vakris_One]

If all characters were A tier, game would be good. If all characters S tier then each character would have some OP broken aspect and the game would devolve into one move for each character

I'm not sure shamans a good level ground, i'd be inclined to say balance around the kensei level. No one shots, no cheap moves, solid kit to deal with a number of threats

EDIT: not saying shaman is broken (anymore... new raider is giving me flashbacks of shamans launch haha), just she's unique in certain ways, I agree that tehre should be a 'gold standard' character that all characters are balanced around (i.e. if you attack faster, you do less damage, if you dodge better something else is diminished etc. etc.). Kensei is not ideal but in terms of nothing really cheap and just a solid base mechanic kit, its a good place to draw balance from

I've got 63 reps in Kensei and I would say balance around Shaman's level. Kensei has a couple of glaring faults that should not be replicated. A completely useless chase tool, perfectly useless 600ms side lights and a lack of mid-chain pressure. Shaman is the better example of a baseline gold standard in my opinion. No dead or near useless pieces of kit. Everything she has has its use without being brokenly overpowered and she can be punished for making mistakes or being too predictable.

[Knight_Raime]

What would you rate the reworked raider as?

S tier. His punishes/damage profile were buffed. His stunning tap is a proper opening mix up (though still reactable at a higher level,) and both his stunning tap and dodge GB/CGB allow him to be even stronger defensively than he used to be.

[Knight_Raime]

I've got 63 reps in Kensei and I would say balance around Shaman's level. Kensei has a couple of glaring faults that should not be replicated. A completely useless chase tool, perfectly useless 600ms side lights and a lack of mid-chain pressure. Shaman is the better example of a baseline gold standard in my opinion. No dead or near useless pieces of kit. Everything she has has its use without being brokenly overpowered and she can be punished for making mistakes or being too predictable.

Shaman is decently flawed as well. She just happens to make up for it with immense chase and strong gank potential. in terms of single picks and anti gank she's p bad.