Raider rework vs hitokiri release | Forums

[Vendelkin]

My turn to chime in. Too many of these threads being thrown around. So instead of responding to 5 of them ill just place my opinion once here.

Raider's rework has completely overshadowed hitokiri's release. This is the biggest problem to me. Balance aside (which i do talk about further down) the overshadowing samurais time to shine is exceedingly upsetting to me. BP was a holy god on release because of his uniqueness, style, and releative power. Hitokiri is still being hated on but feels like an afterthought to me in some ways.

Noobs are complaining about hitokiri's actually kind of average feats.

And im sitting here upset because the moment the samurai were finally supposed to come into the light instead the entire focus of the forum right now is noobs from other factions wanting hitokiri wrongfully nerfed while being completely bullheaded about how strong the raider rework is.

Aspects of the rework were needed. He did need a buff, but even pre buff because of how ridiculously strong his dodge gb is good players could decimate with raider. And in 4v4s his grabs of any kind were a death sentance. Fact is he needed a buff, but he was always viable.

Now he is too strong. I, nor anyone i know of, is asking for a complete reversal on his kit, but he should not have gotten at least one aspect of it. No nerfs were given. This is the first complete buff instead of sideways change weve seen in ages. And it isnt healthy.

Hitokiri on the other hand has some new combinations of old tricks that people need to learn. Her bashes are not very useful. Feinting them is still hard to use right. Her charged heavies will eventually be parriable with practice and even then back dodging works surprisingly well in most situations. Her hard feints break her out of her special stance making it tricky to maintain momentum. Her bash cannot be used on dodge.

And btw im not saying she is weak. Just no where near as strong as some claim. My placement is probably B+ or A-

Back to raider. Maintains his utility on dodge gb that by itself is stronger than hitokiri's whole bash game with much less effort. Hyper armor (which im fine with). Sped up stunning taps, and ridiculous damage around the board. Soft feints that are useful in a situation that gives him 4+ decent options (let it fly, stunning tap, feint dodge gb, feint gb, feint and counter parry,) Something needs to be reigned in. To me he feels S or S- to me.

My proposal is this;
In a couple of weeks (give things time) make the following changes:

Hitokiri gain the ability to softfeint heavies into her bash mix ups.
Raider loses ONE AND ONLY ONE of the following: -dodge gb
-speed ups
-dmg buffs (not accross the board but to his lights and to his finisher heavy.)


Raider has completely overshadowed the release of hitokiri, and thats upsetting.

After that we let things sit. Also i agree with many that lawbringer needs at least one hyper armor move... i mean really full plate. But his rework is decent imo.

[The.All.Father]

And im sitting here upset because the moment the samurai were finally supppsed to come into the light

Let me understand this. U are upset why exactly? U expected that Hitokiri will be godly, and it will make players join Samurai faction or what?

[Vendelkin]

Let me understand this. U are upset why exactly? U expected that Hitokiri will be godly, and it will make players join Samurai faction or what?

Precisely. Cept not godly. Just immediate solid A tier. Which she may be. The issue is more the fact that on her release more focus and power was instead given to the raider.

[The.All.Father]

Precisely. Cept not godly. Just immediate solid A tier. Which she may be. The issue is more the fact that on her release more focus and power was instead given to the raider.

So, what it means for Samurai faction? Hitokiri is a new hero, for now it is too quick to make judgements but i think it is solid A. Why do u think that new hero should be more powerful than lets say Centurion who is trash?

[Vendelkin]

So, what it means for Samurai faction? Hitokiri is a new hero, for now it is too quick to make judgements but i think it is solid A. Why do u think that new hero should be more powerful than lets say Centurion who is trash?

Three reasons.
1 Comparing new heroes to the weakest link is pointless. Of course new heroes should be closer in line to the best heroes otherwise it just forces more buffing down the line. You dont balance to the weakest. The closest comparison markers for a new hero right now should be the recent releases (wulin/bp) and the most well recieved reworks (kensei)

2 Cent is getting a buff soon. So again balancing her to cents lvl would be foolish even from that standpoint alone.

3 Do you really want all heroes to be as weak as centurion? I feel like you are trying to pick a fight here with this weird comparison. FYI in my opinon people that bring up Cent in the debate against raider are also being stupid. You should not use a weakest link who will be shortly changed as a logic point for launching any discussion of balancing

[The.All.Father]

Three reasons.
1 Comparing new heroes to the weakest link is pointless. Of course new heroes should be closer in line to the best heroes otherwise it just forces more buffing down the line. You dont balance to the weakest. The closest comparison markers for a new hero right now should be the recent releases (wulin/bp) and the most well recieved reworks (kensei)

2 Cent is getting a buff soon. So again balancing her to cents lvl would be foolish even from that standpoint alone.

3 Do you really want all heroes to be as weak as centurion? I feel like you are trying to pick a fight here with this weird comparison. FYI in my opinon people that bring up Cent in the debate against raider are also being stupid. You should not use a weakest link who will be shortly changed as a logic point for launching any discussion of balancing

U clearly doesn't get what I am asking. I will repeat this once more - So, what it means for Samurai faction? thats first
Second:
Hero should be just fine, not overpowered and i think u wanted hitokiri in that position and u feel that Raider "took" this place. That is what i think, so I was asking questions. My point is - no hero, new or reworked should be overpowered, and Hitokiri IMHO is not. I don't wanna discuss about Cent xD this trashcan was an example. Hitokiri is what u said probably solid A, so what do u want? U want it to be S tier with broken mechanics like Conq for a while, then nerf huh (or even no nerf)? cause he is new here?

[Vendelkin]

U clearly doesn't get what I am asking. I will repeat this once more - So, what it means for Samurai faction? thats first
Second:
Hero should be just fine, not overpowered and i think u wanted hitokiri in that position and u feel that Raider "took" this place. That is what i think, so I was asking questions. My point is - no hero, new or reworked should be overpowered, and Hitokiri IMHO is not. I don't wanna discuss about Cent xD this trashcan was an example. Hitokiri is what u said probably solid A, so what do u want? U want it to be S tier with broken mechanics like Conq for a while, then nerf huh (or even no nerf)? cause he is new here?

Like my initial post says i dont want a buff to her other than maybe in a few weeks giving her the ability to soft feint heavies into her bashes (make her bash potentially useful against good players)

And i also dont want her OP

I do want her to be stronger than the raider such that she is not overshadowed. That is correct. Which there is nothing wrong with that desire. Samurai are arguably the weakest faction right now and have been for most of the game. Samurai have noob stompers. Especially if you exclude the weirdness that is shinobi.

Also.... i clearly got what you were asking.

Here is your question "Why do u think that new hero should be more powerful than lets say Centurion who is trash?"

I answered your question. Perhaps you were not being clear with what you wanted to ask?

Is there really anything wrong with me wanting samurai to have the spotlight during the season that was precisely advertised for that purpose?

[Vendelkin]

If this conversation continues with you asking restated questions about my obvious desires that i have stated clearly i will cease taking the time to respond.

[The.All.Father]

If this conversation continues with you asking restated questions about my obvious desires that i have stated clearly i will cease taking the time to respond.

Now u answered me. U want HER (sorry, thought she is male) to be stronger cause she is new and she is Samurai. I still don't know what is your wishes for this faction xD u want their heroes to be better, or u think that making a new Samurai will make Samurai faction win a war faction ? Doesn't matter now, cause i don't care about faction war and i even care less about heroes placement in the factions. If it please u, i can agree that Raider is a Samurai cause nobody cares (well, that is what i thought).

[Playing_Mantis]

why does hyper armor have to be the answer to everything? the game feels like a trade fest, and its not fun for those without the ability to trade. in my opinion too much hyper armor is ruining the game. what ever happened to using skill and not just hyper armor spam trading?

also, i wish the warriors den would talk about and focus on these big issues rather than fluffy community corner buL1****. we won't have a community if **** stays this way. does ubi even care about all the obviously upset players? I'm really thinking they have one agenda and its not about the players I'm afraid.