Why are there still people complaining about Orochi ? | Forums

[Magostera]

I am deadly serious. Why is would anyone complain about an outdated, powercreeped character with the smallest kit of the entire game ?

Let's see the complaint. "Light spam", "Orochi too fast", "Spam to win", "Unreactable Light", etc... Yeah, but no. If you complain about Orochi light attacks, you must have slept since 2017.

Orochi first light in the chain, from all side, is 500 ms. Who else have 500 ms light ? Warden, Peacekeeper, Lawbringer post-rework ( with 400 ms top light ), Centurion, Gladiator, Black Prior, Raider post-rework, Warlord ( only side light ), Berserker ( only side light ), Valkyrie, Shaman, Nobushi, Shinobi, Aramusha, Tiandi, Jiang Jun, Shaolin ( 400 ms top light ), Nuxia.

Yeah. Almost EVERY OTHER HERO have 500 ms light at the start of their chain. That's quite the shock huh ? Maybe its the chained light then. True, they are 400 ms. But... Its far from being unique.

Who else have 400 ms chained light ? Peacekeeper, Berserker ( who have hyperarmor on them ), Nuxia. So all other assassins. Plus Tiandi and Shaolin because why not. And not that many people seem to complain as vocally for them as for Orochi. Does it start to smell like double standard ? Of course it does.

Now, let's look the zone attack. 500 ms, yeah, look faster than other... No its not. Warden zone is 500 ms, Peacekeeper 400 ms, Gladiator zone is perfectly safe so timing does not matter, Berserker 500 ms, Shaman 500 ms, Kensei 500 ms, Shinobi 500 ms, Aramusha 500 ms, Tiandi 500 ms... Its not faster. Its on par. Still not smelling it ? Let's continue.

Now, into the heavy attacks... Who care about the heavy ? No one complain about Orochi heavy. 700 ms top and 800 ms side. Centurion have 600 ms heavy in all direction that softfeint into GB. Orochi does not softfeint into anything, so case closed on those.

So, maybe the dodge attack no no no, once more, they are not that great. They are 600 ms. Yeah, 600 ms. Everyone just parry them half asleep.

Storm Rush then, our famous "Opener" !!!... No. It make bad players panic, but good player just do one of two thing: Interrupt you with a light. Or block since the fastest hit of Storm Rush is 500 ms. As fast as a light attack. Which, as we saw, is an extremely common speed now. You can cancel the Rush sure. But then what ? You lost half your stamina, and no good opponent will fall for the bait or try to parry since they just waited to block.

Riptide strike, our reaction attack that is basically why Orochi is a "counter attacker". 600 ms. Not feintable. In any way. In other words, free parry for anyone not half asleep, or who don't recklessly heavy without feinting when Orochi back dodge, aka every half-competent player. Like the dodge attack. Starting to see a pattern ? I sure do.

The Deflect ! Surely they must be weapon of mass destruction, easy to pull off for good orochi players since they are the center of his kit hahahaha, you fell for it for half a second didn't you ? Deflect is completely unsafe on every account, since i-frame are prioritized, meaning there are almost no deflect frame in a dodge except forward dodge, and also deflect are to be inputted earlier than a parry, making them unsafe since the enemy may have decided to feint in that timing. And even then, for risking to take a GB or a heavy, what do you get ? 35 damage. Yes, 35, because no player will ever let himself be hit by the 50 damage deflect and will simply dodge and GB. Or you can hard feint it to avoid being guardbroken, meaning it reset to neutral. So why would you not parry instead ? Safer, give almost the same damage. Deflect are worthless as defensive options, purely and simply.

That's it. So in result, what can Orochi do offensively ? Feint heavy until the opponent fall asleep and don't parry the light/zone that come after all the feinting ? Whiff attacks in the hope that the opponent will not be able to block the chained 400 ms light ? Pretty much. But other can do it, and have better options aside that. Defensively ? Just like everyone. Parry. Or like other assassins, dodge attack. Nothing exciting. Nothing special.

And that's the problem. Orochi is said, on For Honor own site, to be a "fast character", with "fast attacks and "even quicker dodge attacks". Lies, all of it. His attack speed is nothing special. His dodge attacks are not faster than other and does not have anything unique. His lights are not the fastest, they are average in damage and speed. His heavy attacks have average speed and deal average damage. His dodge attacks are not the fastest nor the strongest, but fall in line with the rest. They are even inferior to Shaman dodge attack who count as heavy and give less punishment when parried. He does not have a single softfeint. Not a single unblockable of any sort, no bash. You have nothing to surprise the opponent or make him guessing except that tiny chained 400 ms light... That other character also have in their kit, and much more.

So yeah. Why people still complain about Orochi ? Why do people even ask about an Orochi nerf ? Why ? If anything, Orochi need a complete rework that would redefine his style into something really unique instead of being labeled unjustly as the "OP Light spammer", because currently his kit is emptier than For Honor Faction war. And that's saying something.

[x6_Musashi_9x]

100% agree, the lack of anything is why rochi holds the light spam title, and its just cause thats all he's got.Only move not a light is the storm rush, aka light poke bait.

[KotoKuraken]

you're right. Why complain about Orochi when Raider exists

[I-Nibbiru-I]

I agree, if people cannot block his initial light that is 500ms then I cannot imagine how are they doing againts other heroes who actually have pressure in their kit and I certainly cannot imagine why Orochi is the only problem for them.

He has little to no offense, nothing special beside the delayable second light attack and the also delayable side dodge attacks, he needs something completely new to his kit to spice up his gameplay and to add some mixup potentional.

Right now he is as barebones as a hero could get.
I'm not saying Peacekeeper is better, because she is not, but atleast she has access to more 'advanced' (at this point it should really be basic and default to every hero) tools in her kit like soft-feints.

[Christian_Neo]

When you start playing specially in console Orochi is a pain in the *s. Later on when you understand how the mechanics of the game works things change.

[Magostera]

Christian_Neo

When you start playing specially in console Orochi is a pain in the *s.

I demonstrated already that that argument is as invalid as it can be. Almost all heroes in the game are as fast as Orochi. He is not quicker than any other assassin, and some character have easier acess to 400 ms attack like Shaolin and Lawbringer. If you complain about Orochi on console, then you are simply biased against him.

Christian_Neo

Later on when you understand how the mechanics of the game works things change.

Yes, but that go for every character as well. So your post, translated, is "Any character on console with 500 ms light ( read, almost everyone ) and those with 400 ms even more ( read, every assassin in the game ) is difficult to face on console until you get better." Which, you must admit, confirm pretty much everything I just said. Orochi do not stand out in any way.

[Litwanauczyciel]

請問你是玩大蛇嗎? 如果是, 我很能了解你想幫大蛇說話的心情。
大部分角色有500ms輕擊沒有錯，但不是所有都有角色都是沒有後搖的連續攻擊。
再者你可以到PS4上看看大蛇的打法，一堆高等LV70，打法都是用專精把你清空體力後，開始三個方向的輕 擊。

500ms不是問題，問題是當一些外在因素造就大蛇的抱怨，例如 30fps、Ping值高低、延遲輕擊打法、動作設計前、後搖等。

[AeolusBlack]

I am lvl 70 Orochi and have owned the game since day 1
Not only do I 100% agree with orochi being re-worked but I'd like to add that the Orochi feats are nearly impossible to use in combat because they require ridiculously long animations.
The easiest feat to use is the nail bomb, so we can Kamikaze but no way of us using kiai or a smoke bomb
HOW IS SETTING A NAIL BOMB QUICKER THAN A SMOKE BOMB!?!?!
+ Kiai is a scream or forced exhale *IN REAL LIFE* Used simultaneously when performing an attack
So why does the orochi have to wipe his arse to perform this scream? We can't get a heavy attack that includes the Kiai!?!?!?! Orochi heavys are b.s. and everyone else gets unblockable or hyper armor!?!?!
Bruh even the fat characters with heavy weapons are faster than Orochi
IRL The katana is the most aerodynamic blade ever swung.
The heavy animations themself look like someone performing single cut demonstrations on a tatami mat, this is not how anyone swings a katana in a real battle against a living opponent.
Why would you throw all of your weight and balance into being left wide open?
No stabs? Da fuq! Peacekeeper can stab. Against armored oppenents the most practical use of the katana is stabbing into the small spaces between armor not so much trying to slice the air around them.
It's just all wrong really, to pick it apart is just doing some ubisoft jerks job for him.

[SIIaSII]

People crying over LB while orochi is completely overlooked by the casual community & game devs just proves that how uneducated the casuals are in-regards to game mechanics & whine only when their favorite character gets nerfs or buffs.

[Riazer96]

Why do you think that orochi is the problem? The problem is players spamming (and turtling) stop.
If you want to lame spamming or turtle your way to victory It's obvious your enemy is going to complain.