Raider Rework Busted | Forums

[David_gorda]

I can tell u that now i have fun. I don't mind losing now cause i know i have tools to deal with most of the opponents but i have to use it wise. Now gameplay is more dynamic and i am trying new mix-ups and actually use the lights from neutral (which is real relief, u can trust me ). Overall just thank u, I came back after being depressed how Raider 1v1 looks like, and now i can turn on this mode and having fun. U toned down the stampede which was super stupidly good in 4v4 (everybody ofc don't mind that u took his ultimate weapon in 4v4 modes, but WHO CARES) and now it is more adequate and i am grateful

yeah he is one of my fsvorite classes i played since season one and he is good but not op like other s tier like Berserker. raider had a decent kit before but now he is viable.

[atac56]

its only been a few days and the raider is already getting dragged through the mud. exactly why forum suggestions should be taken with a grain of salt. thread after thread used to be about the black prior, now it looks like its the raiders turn.

[David_gorda]

its only been a few days and the raider is already getting dragged through the mud. exactly why forum suggestions should be taken with a grain of salt. thread after thread used to be about the black prior, now it looks like its the raiders turn.

yeah i play both these classes and black prior is better but raider is a good noob stomper in dominion for sure.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

Invulnerable in theory. I can even smell that u are Conq player.

OH NO!!! What gave it away? Was it the Conqueror in my avatar photo that I always have? Nobody can get anything past you can they?

First thing u want is to remove a dodge GB, which is the only thing what can (i repeat - CAN) stop infinite bash spam.

Well no, actually you would still have dodge into stunning tap just for starters. Maybe you should learn what your class can do first before you try to debate about it? Thanks.

Second thing is that u complain about OOS as a Conq? Once u go OOS fighting a Conq u end up dead, killed by bash/GB spam.

First off, I'm not complaining that Raider has good OOS pressure, I'm complaining that he has good OOS pressure while maintaining his extreme effectiveness to put opponents into OOS.

Conqueror doesn't have an effective way of putting an opponent into OOS. His shield bash only does 10 stamina damage. If you go into OOS against a Conqueror, it's your own failure to regulate stamina usage. Meanwhile with Raider, I throw one attack, he dodge GBs me and then I lose the bulk of my stamina during one carry. That's a garbage mechanic which heavily discourages attacking. I see it on par with pre-rework Conqueror's neutral superior block, pre-rework Lawbringers shove on block, and pre-rework Shugoki's neutral hyper armor. And given all these characters lost their counterpart mechanic, why is Raider so special that he shouldn't lose his? And I'm somehow the hypocrite in this? LOL

Secondly, going OOS against a Conqueror is nowhere near a guaranteed death but feel free to keep believing that old tired myth because it's not going to save you anyway.

And this combo u mention is guaranteed, but not safe as it is a free GB for the opponent and most of Raiders which did this combo will be OOS after this, so GB will give u a free heavy after a fall for example.

Except the opponent is in OOS. I know the zone's recovery is slow but is it slow enough to guarantee a OOS opponent a GB? I doubt it.

its funny that ArchDuke is against an op raider because he plays conq but he was the poster child on keeping the op as **** conq back some months ago. if he played raider i guarantee he would be for the changes.

Really? That's all you got out of it? You either have very selective memory or poor comprehension skills. I told all the others repeatedly that I was okay with a shield bash nerf. I also made my own thread in October detailing nerfs to shield bash and some of Conqueror's defensive abilities like the zone attack. What they had a problem with was that I also disproved their outright lies and pointed out that Conqueror would collapse into nonviability without buffs to other areas to compensate such as the charged heavy. That's what pretty much any pro player is going to tell you. In fact a pro player would even tell you that shield bash is medicore at best.

[CRIMS0NM0NKEY]

If I play shugoki he can dodge and gb any attack unless I just through a light and counter gb. If he throw a stunning tap and I throw a light to headbutt I running completely out of stamina and am blinded worse. If I run out of stamina he has the option to stampede. If he runs out of stamina I have no option but to let him get his stamina back.

[Knight_Raime]

Raider is like the last character on the roster you would want to spam shield bash against. He pretty much is invulnerable to shield bash/GB mixup and always has been.



Is that the standard now? People have to be able to go 30-0 in a dominion match in order to point out problems with a character?

Raider already had a strong defensive tool with dodge GB. He already had good damage. He has higher than average health. He could already dish out excessive stamina damage. He was already damn good in 4v4 but was subpar in 1v1, however he still was far from unsalvageable in 1v1 and his rework should have included some nerfs to his already existing strengths if they were going to give him all of the goodies they did.

The bare minimum should have been that they removed dodge GB. They gave Raider soft feint into GB on all of his heavies and zones to catch people that side dodged to avoid both the heavy/zone and stunning tap simultaneously, yet Raider gets to keep his ability that lets him bypass many mixups.

He can also get you into OOS or near OOS very easily compared to most characters and he has an unblockable from neutral which can now soft feint into GB. And everytime I've gotten thrown while in OOS by a Raider, they were able to get a stunning tap into raider's fury for huge damage. I'm not entirely sure if it's guaranteed, but it sure seems like it. So he gets amazing OOS pressure while being extremely good at putting people into OOS.

Stunning tap into raiders fury is confirmed on an oos back throw. Not from stampede or side throw from what I could test. Stunning tap into raiders fury is also confirmed on an oos parry. Edit:

Stunning tap into raiders fury is also confirmed on revenge parrying and revenge back throw. Still no on side throws and forward throws.

[Saltreaver]

I'm seeing those who aren't fans of the changes mention their experience of what it's like to actually fight Raiders. For those don't have much issue with the changes, how are you finding the fights from a "fun"/"gameplay" perspective (rather than just straight win/loss balancing)?

Raider was always my main and i was about to quit for good cause of the sorry state he was in. Now he can confidently hold his ground against S tier heroes. So yeah im having much fun playing as Raider. Honestly i had low hope for the rework, tought you guys would ruin him for good. The rework is amazing and i'm gratefull to you guys. Looks like im sticking around for a while longer.

[AlphawolfyUP]

People making the defence of 'Just parry the soft-feint' Sure, it's that simple, parry the soft-feint tap that could instead have been a guardbreak soft-feint, go on, start a heavy into a potential sf break, that will go fine /s

Raider counterplay worked before because you only had to react if the swing changed in one way that can be read and prepared for, but that isnt the case anymore and the time of the stunning tap isnt enough for the average player to be able to recognise which type of feint it was, so it becomes a pre-prepared coin flip in their mind, and that isn't gameplay anymore, it's just luck. Thats why it's not fun to face, because if you are right and get the read and counter, you just feel like you lucked out, and if your wrong you get punished for the next couple of seconds by whats probably going to be more of the same but now blinded.

Literally any other mechanic change in raider's kit would have been better than messing with that.. It genuinely makes me wonder how much this was playtested beforehand.

[Timeweaver67]

Raider is in a broken spot and ubi needs to fix it ASAP because having a raider with 5 options from just a HEAVY is not okay.

[The.All.Father]

OH NO!!! What gave it away? Was it the Conqueror in my avatar photo that I always have? Nobody can get anything past you can they?

OMG, do u use your brain?" I can even smell" - a metaphor, cause i can see this filthy image of yours showing Conq and in addition u have problem with dodge GB - that is what makes u a stinky one. Please don't make me explain in this time...

Well no, actually you would still have dodge into stunning tap just for starters. Maybe you should learn what your class can do first before you try to debate about it? Thanks.

Pathetic provocation, and it is even worse when u don't know what YOUR hero can do. So maybe YOU should learn what your Conq can do, and this is GB after being backthrowed by Raider who did stunning tap and Raider's Fury EVEN if u are OOS. I am aware that i have stunning tap just for u know. Yet the dodge GB was the only thing which helped me deal with bash spam. No, stunning tap never stopped a bashspammers in my career

Secondly, going OOS against a Conqueror is nowhere near a guaranteed death but feel free to keep believing that old tired myth because it's not going to save you anyway.

Yeah, myths. I've never seen a minotaur but i've been killed by this many times back in the day (95% health drain i think). Probably i am just super weak right ? (Don't answer, it is retorical and i don't wanna talk about it with u here [yeah, i feel that i have to explain my thoughts to u, cause u might not get it right - as in first point]).

Meanwhile with Raider, I throw one attack, he dodge GBs me and then I lose the bulk of my stamina during one carry. That's a garbage mechanic which heavily discourages attacking.

And this is what we should debate about - Should it take so much stamina? For me now it can go away (so much stamina drain).