If current PTS goes live, the game will start going downhill | Forums

[Bigwhitepaw]

2 upcoming changes are behind all this. Overall nerfing on difficulties by decreasing npc damage and the forced tank meta.

1; The current live version of the game is already too easy. Ye, I know a lot of people still crying about impossible activities and difficulties, and insane npc dmg, but most of these people are just ignoring the learning of fundamentals and the learning of 'how to play the game'.

The truth is currently this game has no real challenge. You're not forced to improve your gear after a while. You don't need fully optimized gear (you just need a 'mehh' build which focuses on some stats (current meta stats for example), but you don't need to max them, don't need a fully optimized gear) to beat the current hardest end game. No challenge at all. No goal (like something you can't beat until you don't optimize more) which motivates you to improve your build.
Challenging missions are ridicilously easy to solo and team (and most of the content have challenge difficulty at highest). Heroic are not bad (bounty/missions/stronghold), but still without fully optimized gear you beat everything. Tidal Basin last fight the only Heroic content which needs focus and perhaps more attempts to complete it.

Decreasing the npcs even more just make the game more and more easier. Players need goals and challenges! Making the game easier again doesn't give any goal or challange. It makes the game become a braindead shooter game where people will lose their interest very quickly.

With the new changes we're approaching to the 'Division 1-like' playstyle, where you don't even need to use cover, you just move forward in the middle of the street and you kill everything what you see. (This shouldn't happen at all. One of the fundamental in the game is using covers and playing around it tactically. If you played around it before, npc damage was no issue at all)


Sidenote: If someone feels heroic and challenging difficulties are still too hard for him/her, then that person should play on lower. That's why there are different difficulties, and it's good. And the game has to be able to be played by everyone, but not everyone should play and beat the hardest difficulty in the game, because there are different levels of players. This is normal. Everybody should play on the his/her matching difficulty level. I understand the game is for everyone and I completely agree. That's why there are difficulties. Personally I would be happy if there was a content what I just can't do it yet...it could motivate me to be better and find better gear and learn more about map, fights, focus more, etc.

2; Tank meta is similar topic. We are at the same spot where we were in Divison 1. We really need tank meta in the game with decreased npc dmg together? How could we make the game even more easier?
Ok I got it, you tried to make the tank'ish builds to be more viable, but you don't adjust/tweak/balance, you just rework and create a new meta, which will be boring as f. And well, you made the tank'ish build more viable in the end. Actually you made a situation where everybody will be in tank'ish build focusing on 1-2 meta talent, because that will be the best damage as well. And the good dps builds will have much more defense attribute than offense. (Wait, what?)


+1 thought about tweaking/adjusting/balancing:

You guys, at Massive, should learn how to tweak/adjust when we talk about balancing. You should copy/paste other games balance process perhaps, if you're not familiar with it. That's totally fine. The best game is born with an original idea of its own and then with some best ideas added to it from other games. And we players don't care, we just want this game to be the best in this genre. We appreciate if this game has every good working ideas from other games.

So for example: You created a really good and enjoyable pvp, where you feel like you play a real shooter pvp (in third person view), where every seconds matter. If you aim better and you're quicker you kill the other. But many people cried because of time to kill in pvp. Personally I think it was good, but I can live with a slightly increased TTK as well, if the majority demands it, it's okay. Cutting the damage modifier almost by half and adding tank meta attributes to the game and buffing some tanky talents isn't what we call tweaking/adjusting. You're literally reworking the whole pvp system and feeling. And this game's relatively good pvp turns very quickly into a joke where just tanks shooting each other all day long, and where snipers are worth nothing again. You literally removed every sniper rifle from pvp for example with the current changes. (perhaps nemesis can work...I don't know, I don't have it in PTS) And I don't play marksman rifle in pvp, so this doesn't affect me, but I can understand if some people are really pissed of.

Fortunately this is PTS, you can still change your mind before releasing it to live. Try adjusting/tweaking, small changes, not big reworks.

[KotoTheMage]

You sounds kinda dismissive, but I agree with some of the points. Snipers and skill builds got even worse, in my opinion, not like you could find any in conflict before.

[Zhbog_1]

Good post. Games need balancing, but when trying to find the "right" balance adjust small and re-adjust as needed. Big swings in meta, dmg, talents, etc. all at once is not ideal. Not only ideal, but at this state most everyone is at a standstill. Why farm gear when you have no idea what will change and how. With attributes going up or down, more required, etc. we just do not have enough room to keep everything and trying to read PTS updates and align is almost impossible.

BLUF: Changes are needed, but start small and adjust as needed. Thank you

[Feurigwarm]

I mostly like your "Sidenote" to the different difficulties… actually i hardly feel any difference between hard and challenging on live Servers while playing solo, and in Group, challenging only slows a little bit down compared with hard.. (actually, in challenging you may have to stop Walking and take cover from time to time) on Both difficulties i am Shooting while walking towards the NPCs, mostly the NPCs will die, while running to their destinated cover.

I never tried Heroic, as "one more item" is not worth spending more time, Maybe i will try it later on today and see if it is more fun than those "walk from Point A to Point B and then loot"-Missions .

[Peaceful.Fred]

I kinda agree with the thread starter Bigwhitwpaw..
Pls don't shift away from the cover based aspect and the fact that using close to real life tactics pays off in a big way and is very rewarding when done right.
We are already seeing tank builds on bases of the current PTS being posted on youtube that seem to close to what we had in TD1

I too see no need to tweak difficulty lvl of the PvE aspect as the game is now. Also the talks or tweaking time to kill in PvP is a very dangerous rabbit hole to jump into imo.
We like this game because it's different to TD so please don't make it more similar by introducing less "tanky" NPC

On most levels I agree with Bigwhitwpaw. Just fix the bugs, introduce RAIDS and let the game settle. All these changes after 1½ months is not good and makes the game frustrating
I find myself not taking full advantage of gear as it is now cus changes are annoncerede and thus I don't feel like wasting time and effort on something that is made redundant shortly.

I do agree that grater rewards for greater risks by playing at higher difficulty would be a nice change
.
Tweak the game a bit, fix the bugs and launch RAIDS and all the other content we were promised. And leave it at that
,
All these changes aren't for the larger fan base I feel, but just to please a group of "casusal" ganers that aren't willing to put in the and effort to play the game as it is meant but be played.

.

[Scarecrowblack]

I completely agree .. without challenge it's all boring .. and this style of pvp is much more fun and intelligent than td1