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  1. #1

    so as a Pvp'er what i think of the DZ in TD2 vs TD1

    first off ik pvp is a not talked a lot for some reason everyone is always talking NPC's and PvE.

    Also for the love of god this game isn't ment to be realism based its a RPG stop trying to say the TTK has to be low

    so just to be clear here im talking PvP not PvE in anyway.

    So with that out of the way ill just get started...

    ik the PTS has changes coming iv played them and it still feels bad to me.

    The DZ itself.

    i feel as if normalized zones defeat the purpose of gearing in the game and feels kinda bad imo. the game is about becoming stronger with items yet they have 0 impact here other then talents. As you can go into a Normal DZ with lvl 20ish gear on with the right talents at lvl 30 and be as strong as someone at lvl 30 who farmed his/her gear. That just removes one of the key things ina rpg or looter shooting imo the gearing factor.

    Both DZ damage is the only thing worth building as damage is far to high.. im not asking for TD1 style or a moving tank. im asking for the TTK gets reduced enough to where u the ability to at least get to cover or move to new cover. with both PTS and live has still a low TTK imo the builds just wont happen.. while yes ik there are a few tanker builds on the pts they req you to be fighting not moving to cover. as it stands right now on live u have a little chance in a 1v1 if they fire first in the pts its a bit better but not great.

    Why was the DZ split up and player count reduced heavily.

    So why was it split up? part of the fun in TD1 was the bigger dark zone. you could end up chancing ppl across the map threw a verity of builds. what was lintel now more fun then i thought it was at the time now since TD2 is out. i miss having man hunts u had to chance down or if u where the last one alive trying to weave threw the buildings to give you space. The random turn around factor was great also.. the underground areas also allowed for this. i miss having a big open map to PvP i guess.

    Player count was reduced heavily in the TD2 down to 12 what even in a full DZ the map this size still feels kinda dead.. then if u get a clan stacking its even more apparent the DZ is just to small/not enough players


    in the end IK TD2 is trying new things and thats great.. but maybe just maybe look back at the past game and take what ppl enjoyed? and revamp it not gut it and rework entirely .
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  2. #2
    Originally Posted by GrimTwilight Go to original post
    i feel as if normalized zones defeat the purpose of gearing in the game and feels kinda bad imo. the game is about becoming stronger with items yet they have 0 impact here other then talents. As you can go into a Normal DZ with lvl 20ish gear on with the right talents at lvl 30 and be as strong as someone at lvl 30 who farmed his/her gear. That just removes one of the key things ina rpg or looter shooting imo the gearing factor.
    I don't disagree with the majority of your points but the above is one that others also seem to bring up and personally I think you all miss the point of normalisation.

    For the solo/coop portion of the game the RPG elements make sense. You increase your power in order to take on harder content, and that harder content is gated behind your lack of power. Pretty much how RPGs have worked for as long as I can remember.

    When you introduce PVP the same system is not productive.

    If i go into PVP as a freshly geared 30 and get trounced repeatedly by heavily geared 30s I'm going to take on a negative opinion of PVP. I may even then go on to avoid it which is detrimental to the future of PVP in the game.

    Secondly, good PVP should actually BE the skill of the player not the gear they farmed. Take a look at pretty much all other PVP environments.

    In one situation like WOW you find proliferation of specific "required" builds and classes that are shunned from organised PVP primarily because a lot of the PVP outcomes depend on the class not the player.

    However in games like COD the playing field is levelled making the matches more competitive whether it is your first game (learning curve not-withstanding) or your hundredth.

    It's fair to say the the normalisation isn't perfect and requires work, but imo to say it shouldn't exist is counter-productive to encouraging decent pvp. As for defeating the purpose of gearing, well that should be considered a requirement for the SP/Coop side of the game, not the PVP itself.
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  3. #3
    Theres still a difference in players builds in normalized. You can watch people with certain builds for pvp, they forget about cover and walk straight at someone in the dz with out a xa3re in the world.
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  4. #4
    i dont think i said remove normalized DZ. i just said it feels bad as gear is nearly no factor there. making gear have a slight factor but reduced makes more since while keeping a cap on things so someone with lesser gear dont just get killed and still have a chance via skill what not to fight back and win.

    Theres still a difference in players builds in normalized. You can watch people with certain builds for pvp, they forget about cover and walk straight at someone in the dz with out a xa3re in the world.
    right now the build verity is all dps of a few verity's im not saying there arnt builds atm but most other then dps builds are just bad. also in the normalized zone only talents take effect so even if they change up the builds and put random items on but with the talents they want. they still have the damage out put as someone with a good set.


    in the end its TTK what is the big factor in terms of builds.. with it being so low even if u build tanky your just going to still die super fast. if u build healer first off skill power builds right now are just bad healer or dps. if they make TTK longer and fix skill power . support dps healers and tank builds well rise up not just pure dps. making the pure dps builds only a meta of the past.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by GrimTwilight Go to original post
    [snip to focus on question]
    Why was the DZ split up and player count reduced heavily.

    So why was it split up? part of the fun in TD1 was the bigger dark zone. you could end up chancing ppl across the map threw a verity of builds. what was lintel now more fun then i thought it was at the time now since TD2 is out. i miss having man hunts u had to chance down or if u where the last one alive trying to weave threw the buildings to give you space. The random turn around factor was great also.. the underground areas also allowed for this. i miss having a big open map to PvP i guess.

    Player count was reduced heavily in the TD2 down to 12 what even in a full DZ the map this size still feels kinda dead.. then if u get a clan stacking its even more apparent the DZ is just to small/not enough players


    in the end IK TD2 is trying new things and thats great.. but maybe just maybe look back at the past game and take what ppl enjoyed? and revamp it not gut it and rework entirely .
    To answer you why question, you just to apply some logic to the discussions that center around the DZ in D1 because the developer will not provide information or player counts for the DZ or the game.

    Why split up? - DZ was the big selling point and center attraction, smack in the middle of the map. It was split up because logically it did not meet the developer expectations for attracting and retaining players. It may have been very popular with a niche minority group of players but redesign indicates it was a dismal failure in the eyes of the majority of their player base. If it was a key selling point tor D2, being large and in the middle of the game again, I don't think D2 would have been a sales success. The developer pushed the zones off to the sides of the map to show the majority of players that DZ was not necessary for this game. Unfortunately we will never see the information to corroborate what any of us think.

    Why smaller? - Logically they want players to engage each other. They don't want rogues running all over a large map triggering all kinds of higher level NPCs to keep players from catching them. It was zero fun for the chaser. I know as I use to give chase. Being a player with limited amount of game time, I could never gear properly for the DZ and enter the higher DZ zones for the chase. I'd say most players are limited in their game time like me and did not have fun chasing. Now the NPCs are at the player level all the time so rogues can get targeted by the NPCs they trigger and not survive. Plus all landmarks and extraction sites announce player involvement. Short distances to run for an engagement. To me, they are looking to make DZ PVP zones. They want player vs player 'fights'. If I want to give chase, I might actually catch someone now. Rogues have to play smarter and watch where they are going.

    Normalized zones - If you want your large player base to be in the Dark Zone, you have to provide a balance between the minority daily players that are totally geared up and would dominate any DZ, even as a solo player vs the large majority of the player base that will likely never be geared even close to the minority group and just be slaughtered, like in D1. They made these Dark Zone on much more equal footing to try to attract their large player base into the DZs.

    Occupied Zone - Made for those that want to feel stronger. Since there is only a single zone at all times, the developer information likely told them that one such zone is all that is needed for the minority but vocal player base that likes to play this way.

    I can see why they did what they did with the Dark Zones for D2, having played a lot in the D1 DZ. They used the information they had from D1 to try to make D2 better. Upside, the LZ is greatly improved. Downside, what the DZs had to possibly attract the large average player base is now in the LZ. Myself, I bought a looter shooter. Not interested in engaging other players in combat. This game lets me play at my own place and so far, no problems playing solo in the LZ. Been enjoying the game a lot and in no rush to get to end game.

    I've tried out DZ East and South on two characters so far and I don't really see anything there that would attract me to go back in, particularly if they are leaning toward more extractable loot. With my limited gaming time, more than enough to keep me busy and having fun in the LZ. I can understand how it can be completely different for someone that has been at end game for some time now.
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  6. #6
    You definitely have to be smart if you go rogue. I think i saw 4 deaths by turrets yesterday due to not playing smart. it comes down to being over confident outnumbering the solo, or just running blindly after someone. Ive been on both sides and i like the dz in td2. Td1 rogue was too lopsided. If i get engaged and have someone chasing me they better know the map because we're going straight for the turrets. Ha, i remember when i was rogue from stealing and walked into the being all sneaky, i honestly lol'ed it was such a shocker. It was exactly what i had coming. Their was an outcry about the turrets and npc strength, they should leave it alone. If you run beserk clutch and face tank me you better hope i cant get you into npc, and if you want to pvp itll be right in a landmark. If you want to chase me to the next landmark ill be weaving into the line of turrets. If you get tangled into npc after you kill me ill be behind you when i respawn, not the other way around this time. And if you run i wont be chasing you. Ill see you at the next landmark. The only change they should make is it takes 4 deaths to level down, not one or two, in the odz. I think I'm ranting, sorry. Edit, i want to stay at 50 for the caches, its one of the reasons I'm in there, td1 had loot caches, td2 doesn't.
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  7. #7
    right now im pvp there isn't really a skill factor due to TTK is being to low .. iv already said dont make it like TD1 but rather just make it so u can move around in cover to cover areas.. atm while moving both on pts and live u can be killed way to fast and u just die.. so if u are facing a 1v4 or 1v3 and 2 push u while having a sniper making sure u dont move. u are just dead. since this is a rpg and not a realism sim i just think TTK should allow u to move a round a bit not like a tank and tbh a lot of realism sims armor allows u todo this still.. so why doesn't this game? thats my main issue with the DZ is TTK both live and pts seems really low for no reason.. it removes skill and movement .. i get its a cover based game but at the same time u cant move cover to cover with out being 1 tapped or just dieing to a high rpm AR/SMG/LMG in 1sec with little chance to live. also with low TTK it limits builds as the only real thing to build is damage and live is the prefect example of that. pts aint much better.


    also this is not todo with ur post but why can't rogues voip with non-rouges
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  8. #8
    Sharpandpointy's Avatar Senior Member
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    For your final question, because of the ridiculous amount of venom being spewed around in D1.
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  9. #9
    xxFratosxx's Avatar Senior Member
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    GrimTwilight I definitely here what you saying but even the slightest change will make this game TD1 if we up the TTK.. The game is not perfect in anyway but overall the Devs made the right decision. Coming from a PvPvE player as myself this is the most balance compared to TD1. They are monitoring our actions when it comes to deaths. Good example is how they nerf critical hit damage and caused some talents to not be stack on top of each other that will cause good build players to be overpowered.

    So in a way you are slightly getting what you want on the offense in to not get hit hard besides the snipers but changing the defense end to not die as quick is not the answer. The Devs want us to really push our brain and think of risk instead of being handicap on mechanics in any shooter. Afterall thats what Tom Clancy games been for years for being hardcore. Last thing we need is healing to consistently save people, pop armor kits in less than a second , and so forth. It will be bullet sponge chicken dance all over again. We really just have to play along with the cover they give us and the skills they give us such as shields and defender drone. More importantly we have to rely on the skill in us and not the game/builds.
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  10. #10
    UbiInsulin's Avatar Community Manager
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    I don't think everyone here is going to agree with your take on things, but I can certainly understand your PoV based on the way you wrote this. Thanks GrimTwilight.
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