Lawhoe the jumping trashcan | Forums

[Wowlawbrosucks]

What nerfs? Shove on block guaranteed nothing and was one of the worst mechanics in the game. Long Arm and Impale being interruptable is just following all other CC moves being the same way. I know of no other nerfs, and what he got easily compensates for that. And lights being more accessible means more players will be tempted to throw them out more often, meaning more chance for 50 damage parries.

He could've used more hyperarmor due to him being the towering armored giant that he is, but it is what it is.

Longarm being uninterruptible was crucial when outnumbered, you could split the enemy apart and possibly get a heavy/light while their teammate is catching up giving more time and space. Shove on block was also great against spammy assassins and being outnumbered to give you space and time then switching targets for a quick light. Impale was always mostly useless, but now it's just more useless now that it can be interrupted. Impale could be used when outnumbered to flip an enemy behind you off a ledge to even the odds , now they can just light you out of it . They could of made Impale at least faster or part of a mixup to compensate, now it's 100% useless.

[Illyrian_King]

LB will now be known as the hero in the game. "All that glitter is not gold." Meaning, he looks the coolest, sounds the coolest, but is about as horrid to play with as a rusty, broken knife.

If he used a rusty, broken knife then at least the speed of the animations would be justified ;b

[Oddy._.]

So true, King. I'm just still blown away at how mundane this "Rework" was... 2 years this guys been here, since the beginning of the game! And after the hundreds of threads all centered around this guy what do we get? faster lights and the same speed heavies that almost no LB every really followed through with. Cool, we get unblockables one move earlier, that's doesn't mean much at all since they don't do anything new or game-changing than they already have been.

[bannex19]

This really is consistent with my theory that the new heroes are getting moves that should've been apart of old hero reworks. BP -> WL, Jiang Jun -> Nobushi, Sakura -> LB

[Illyrian_King]

So true, King. I'm just still blown away at how mundane this "Rework" was... 2 years this guys been here, since the beginning of the game! And after the hundreds of threads all centered around this guy what do we get? faster lights and the same speed heavies that almost no LB every really followed through with. Cool, we get unblockables one move earlier, that's doesn't mean much at all since they don't do anything new or game-changing than they already have been.

And I really thought, the devs have a pretty good understanding meanwhile ...

This really is consistent with my theory that the new heroes are getting moves that should've been apart of old hero reworks. BP -> WL, Jiang Jun -> Nobushi, Sakura -> LB

A justified thought ... but old Heroes don't make you buy a Season Pass ^^

[Knight_Raime]

Just going to copy paste my response from the other thread:

"His mid chain mix up is strong. Shove is unreactable and has armor. Lands it gives the second light in the chain at 400ms and goes straight into an unblockable mix up. Forcing you to dodge or parry attempt. Due to the heavies having a slightly longer animation (from being slower attacks) it affords you the ability to feint later which tricks people. (this is already seen with Warden's top UB heavy mix up.)

His side lights are enhanced and are 500ms. He has a 400ms neutral top light. and his heavies are slightly faster. Meaning from neutral he has semi decent feint game with the ability to get into his mix ups easier. His heavies also have more range now. Meaning people who attempt to roll his mix up mid chain might get caught by them. Or at least people who back dodge on heavy indicator.

His zone from neutral was sped up to be 700ms. making it a decent option select parry since the GB vulnerability will be lower. And his parry game is decent as well. Parry a light? Top heavy unblockable into guaranteed ending light. Parry a heavy? chain starting blinding light OR an unblockable zone that has armor. And he still has parry into impale. Which means he still has a high damage punish from any parry.

Like yes. I understand that it sucks that he didn't get armored heavies. But his heavies actually need to be respected now. And his parry game is stronger now. Part of LB's identity is parrying. He's got decent opening pressure, and good mid combo pressure. He's 100% better. Ya'll just don't grasp that somehow."

[Arekonator]

I think this is misunderstanding.
Its not about whether or not he is actually better (because he is), but more of wasted oportunity. Same issue as with WL rework, tbh. There is lot new mechanics that could be implemented and thematically fit, but instead we waited over a year for glorified number tweak that could be done in few weeks tops.
This isnt really about LB rework but about general approach to balancing, of taking inexcusably long time to do minor changes. I would personally prefer much more agressive aproach to balancing, throwing out patches monthly or even every two weeks, and then just rollback the changes that doesnt work. Centurion has been in the trash bin over a year now, same with PK and they barely touch them in that time. They talk about how they want to standardize all the lights at 500ms or faster, so whats stoping them from doing it this next patch?
Again, its not just LB but in general. The results simply dont match with the time and effort thats (supposedly) going into it.

[Oddy._.]

Where does it say his heavies received more range, Raime? 500-400ms lights nowadays in For Honor is where about every character is at, didn't JJ get faster lights from 500 even, to like 400 because they were too slow? Oh but superior lights, letting him go into his heavies which are still the same speed as before, same wind-up time and so forth. His recovery I bet is still the same, meaning slow as all snails, so if you miss an attack I can guarantee most of anyone can side step GB him.

All this "rework" did in my eyes was barely bring LB up to par with the rest of the crew. This however, doesn't mean make him OP to stand out, but give him something unique something to revolve his character around, like longarm, they completely neglected this and missed so many opportunities I.E. giving him a means to use it cause now it doesn't work in ganks and it's still as slow as ever. Why not make something like a heavy soft feint into a shorter, say, 500ms speed longarm effectively DISABLING the opponent by taking a healthy chunk of their stamina, making them pause or have to recover it all while LB puts the pressure on?

[Knight_Raime]

Where does it say his heavies received more range, Raime? 500-400ms lights nowadays in For Honor is where about every character is at, didn't JJ get faster lights from 500 even, to like 400 because they were too slow? Oh but superior lights, letting him go into his heavies which are still the same speed as before, same wind-up time and so forth. His recovery I bet is still the same, meaning slow as all snails, so if you miss an attack I can guarantee most of anyone can side step GB him.

All this "rework" did in my eyes was barely bring LB up to par with the rest of the crew. This however, doesn't mean make him OP to stand out, but give him something unique something to revolve his character around, like longarm, they completely neglected this and missed so many opportunities I.E. giving him a means to use it cause now it doesn't work in ganks and it's still as slow as ever. Why not make something like a heavy soft feint into a shorter, say, 500ms speed longarm effectively DISABLING the opponent by taking a healthy chunk of their stamina, making them pause or have to recover it all while LB puts the pressure on?

In the patch notes it says that his heavies now have more forward momentum.

Missing a heavy isn't an automatic punish for the enemies because he can follow up with an unreactable armored 500ms bash.

I agree long arm was neglected. Long arm still absolutely works in ganks. I.E parry into impale which wall splats into long arm. That's all it was ever used for. If you were frequently landing a neutral long arm you were either setup by an ally with hitstun or GB (which is pointless anyway because hitstun/GB sets up LB for a heavy which lead into shove for more hitstun making it the better gank path,) or you were VSing bad players.

[Knight_Raime]

I think this is misunderstanding.
Its not about whether or not he is actually better (because he is), but more of wasted oportunity. Same issue as with WL rework, tbh. There is lot new mechanics that could be implemented and thematically fit, but instead we waited over a year for glorified number tweak that could be done in few weeks tops.
This isnt really about LB rework but about general approach to balancing, of taking inexcusably long time to do minor changes. I would personally prefer much more agressive aproach to balancing, throwing out patches monthly or even every two weeks, and then just rollback the changes that doesnt work. Centurion has been in the trash bin over a year now, same with PK and they barely touch them in that time. They talk about how they want to standardize all the lights at 500ms or faster, so whats stoping them from doing it this next patch?
Again, its not just LB but in general. The results simply dont match with the time and effort thats (supposedly) going into it.

I would hardly say any of what was done to LB was minor. I feel people are just calling him garbo because he didn't get a new move or soft feints.
The only real missed opportunity that exists in his kit is long arm. And the only sore spot imho is that parry into impale is still a legitimate thing.

I mean even shove from neutral actually has a purpose now. I get that some people wanted more from LB. But I don't think many kept realistic expectations.

Even the two golden standard heros people refer to rework wise (kensei and Bezerker,) didn't really receive much more drastic changes compared to LB's changes. Barring Kensei getting one new move of pommel. His rework just feels great because they took his already obvious flow in his kit and made it work. Most people didn't see LB as a chain based hero despite that being what he is purely because there was a lot of wonk to it. I mean his heavy finishers were dictated by how he accessed them for christ sake.

So yeah, I agree that they could have done more. To a point. But most are just largely overreacting because they didn't temper themselves. Not because the changes were bad.