1. #1

    Great New Idea's for Assassin's Creed

    I know you guys plan these games years in advance so I may not see any changes for quite some time, but I would like to give you guys at Ubisoft two idea's that would make Assassin's Creed even better. So here we go.

    HISTORICAL ACCURACY:

    This came to mind when exploring the island of Knossos in Oddessy. I'm a history buff and I happen to know that the temple ruins where you ultimately find the Minotaur was discovered in the 18th century. The man who did the archaeological dig was obsessed with Greek mythology and when they found a giant carving of a bull HIS assumption was that they found the temple of King Minos. When they found the stone chair ( which i cant seem to find in the ruins ) HE THOUGHT he had found the throne of King Minos; However, this was all untrue. Later discoveries indicated that although bulls were very important to the residents of the island, they were used ceremonially in a tradition known as bull leaping. We know this due to the many figurines weve found in the ruins over the years of people leaping over bulls. So essentially you took a section of the game and threw history out the window and chose to go with the fiction stuck in the head of the archaeologist who discovered the place.



    You see, Assassin's Creed is supposed to be more based on reality, but Origins and Oddessy seem to made up of a lot of made up of more hooey than facts.


    Okay, here's the next great idea for Assassin's Creed. Are you ready?

    PARKOUR/FREE RUNNING:

    Now I know this sounds really effing crazy but you came out with a game called "Unity" now admittedly the game had a lot of flaws that held it back, but the great thing that it did was making the parkour effin' fun as hell. Where did that go? At what point did you guys sit down and say "Let's take all the fun and imagination out of getting from point A to point B, by taking out all the fun free running and parkour moves and just have them be able to climb almost everything ... oh and by the way, to hell with gravity. Just let them jump off mountains, do a flip and roll when they land, they'll be fine."

    NO! This is so not what we want! Bring the parkour back.

    Okay. I have one last idea I'll throw you for free.


    FINISH A PLOT POINT IN GAME: Yeah, Juno. You screwed us on that. Where are Shawn and Rebecca? What was that whole Eve thing? Seriouly? Is it too much to ask for, I dunno, a complete story? And don't give me those "The answers are in the novels and in the comics" hooey. My hobby is playing video games, not reading comic books, when I read real books, they're history books. You remember history right?


    Look, I've loved AC since the very beginning, and despite my gripes I effin' love Oddessy, but at this point you might as well take that motto "We make history your playground" and change it to "We make a playground out of whatever random BS we come up with that will make our bank accounts fatter."
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  2. #2
    Ghost416's Avatar Senior Member
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    First, let me make it clear that I 100% share your passion for history, just so it doesn't come off like I'm defending any "revisionism" in Odyssey.

    Originally Posted by TheShawnSaint Go to original post
    HISTORICAL ACCURACY:

    This came to mind when exploring the island of Knossos in Oddessy. I'm a history buff and I happen to know that the temple ruins where you ultimately find the Minotaur was discovered in the 18th century. The man who did the archaeological dig was obsessed with Greek mythology and when they found a giant carving of a bull HIS assumption was that they found the temple of King Minos. When they found the stone chair ( which i cant seem to find in the ruins ) HE THOUGHT he had found the throne of King Minos; However, this was all untrue. Later discoveries indicated that although bulls were very important to the residents of the island, they were used ceremonially in a tradition known as bull leaping. We know this due to the many figurines weve found in the ruins over the years of people leaping over bulls. So essentially you took a section of the game and threw history out the window and chose to go with the fiction stuck in the head of the archaeologist who discovered the place.

    You see, Assassin's Creed is supposed to be more based on reality, but Origins and Oddessy seem to made up of a lot of made up of more hooey than facts.
    You're applying knowledge gained in modern times to what the Greeks knew in 431 BC. In the EB's time, there wouldn't have been any doubt that Knossos Palace was the seat of King Minos because Minos was an established fact in their history, whereas today he's largely considered to be a myth. There are a number other artifacts, some in the game and some not, that there would have been no doubt behind the legitimacy of. For example, there's no way the ship wreckage in Korinthia that the EB identifies as the Argo, the ship used by Jason in his journey to find the Golden Fleece, could actually be the Argo because if left sitting out in the elements for 1,000+ years since Jason's time, it would have rotted down to nothing.

    FINISH A PLOT POINT IN GAME: Yeah, Juno. You screwed us on that. Where are Shawn and Rebecca? What was that whole Eve thing? Seriouly? Is it too much to ask for, I dunno, a complete story? And don't give me those "The answers are in the novels and in the comics" hooey. My hobby is playing video games, not reading comic books, when I read real books, they're history books. You remember history right?
    Well, whether you read them or not, the conclusion to the Project Phoenix story arc is in the comics. Ubisoft dumped it from the games because it was boring and uninteresting. The games being their lifeblood, they need to include content that is going to be of interest to a wide audience and a good chunk of the fanbase was growing tired of Desmond and his story, so they can't afford to spend millions making games that don't interest people.
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  3. #3
    ProdiGurl's Avatar Senior Member
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    MD: The OP obviously wasn't reading all the forum input on players not liking or caring about Desmond/MD very much and I was one of them.
    In a way, Shawn was the only 'standout' character to me but at the same time, he was a little annoying too.

    Parkour: (this has been gone over many times before) - It's pretty hard to make that fluid with a huge map and flat, sprawled out city areas as opposed to the smaller maps, huge buildings we can scale and compact/cramped cities where parkour is much more effective.
    Granted, what bits we can climb and jump around feels choppy and less fluid in general. It's not as good as a few other games but then it's better than a few other games too.

    I consider it a good thing that we're not dying & taking serious injuries from falling constantly- I got sick of the tedious attention to each step that I had to take.
    Realism is great but it can also take the fun & joy out of a game at the same time, there has to be a balance somewhere.
    I still have flashbacks of Brotherhood's hardcore parkour.

    I think alot of us like and expect the Fantasy elements in Odyssey - I expect it with a mythological-rich era and most of it was done responsibly by giving us options to bypass some of it.

    Alot of us aren't history enthusiasts and just want to play a fun game where some history is accurate and gives us a glimpse of and respect for an amazing ancient era.
    I refuse to take games too seriously - I play to escape and lose myself in other worlds, not demand that they be a Documentary on the History channel.
    Gameplay itself is most important to me.

    Video of Free Running - pay close attn. to the landscape and compare it to most cities in Odyssey, it can't provide us with the fluid parkour/free running you're looking for.
    I'd assume their City mapping of those days is very realistic to that time period...
    I suppose they could have thrown out reality (history) to make huge cramped cities with tall structures designed just for parkour

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  4. #4
    Well, to be fair the reason the modern day storyline got boring is because they didn't keep doing like they did in AC3, having chunks where you actually play as a modern Assassin, they kept giving into the people that didn't get the importance of it, then you got less and less. Maybe the Phoenix Project story might had been better if there was another modern day assassin we knew and cared about other than Shawn Rebecca and Desmonds dad. Who knows, but the modern day conflict is STILL important and it does need more attention. To be fair though I cant blame the fans who hated the modern day stuff when it was done so badly, but almost everyone I know says the parts of AC3 when you're climbing that tower to base jump onto another skyscraper, and the scene when Desmond legit gets to kick some @ss were awesome as hell. ... not so much the walking and talking of being in the temple.

    As for my historical accuracy argument,look what just happened! Notre Dame, gone! Yet in Unity, there it it, painstakingly virtually re-created as it was. I remember the video of the Ubosft crew going to Paris and taking thousands of pictures and doing dozens of hours of research to not only get Notre Dame right, but the other historical locations too ... What do we have in Odyssey? A cutscene thrown together showing the building of the pyrimids ... that were already there just, as ubisoft said "to show the passing of time"

    I mean I can't be the only one who takes Assassin's Creed seriously in the fact that it is a highly successful series that up till Origins has been as spot on with history as it gets, to get people interested in history, teach history, and to let us use these games to not only have fun but to see and experience what life was like in those days. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of that in Odyssey, I won't deny it. I've stared in awe of the people crafting statues, making dye, making fabric, there is a lot going on and I love it, it's just hard to focus on the real world lives of the Ancient Greeks and some of it's most important historical figures while I'm a demonic looking flaming monstrosity atop a burning horse from hell riding into the petrified forest to frackin' fight Medusa!
    Or, better yet, rather than stop a moment to actually take in the historical location of where Hypocrates ran a hospital, or to take in the beauty of what was once real, meticulously crafted statues or buildings, I'm going to dress as an Abstergo soldier from thousands of years in the future while riding a winged horse like Pegasus!! ... Forget about that, A UNICORN!!! Who doesn't love Unicorns!? They really existed, right!?

    Seriously. Assassin's Creed could really be bringing the past to life. It could be telling phenomenal stories and make us truly feel something, like we did when Ezio walked into the ancient, empty library and saw the remains of Altair, or when Ezio, after a long hard life, takes his final breaths as he watches his family, happy and safe in the place where his father and brothers were executed ... Okay obviously animated movies are cool with me. I hope you get the point of what I'm trying to say, cause no I gotta go pretend i didn't shed a couple tears.
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  5. #5
    Ghost416's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by TheShawnSaint Go to original post
    To be fair though I cant blame the fans who hated the modern day stuff when it was done so badly, but almost everyone I know says the parts of AC3 when you're climbing that tower to base jump onto another skyscraper, and the scene when Desmond legit gets to kick some @ss were awesome as hell
    The skyscraper segment, naval gameplay, and treasure-hunting side missions like Oak Island were literally the only aspects of AC3 that I liked.

    What do we have in Odyssey? A cutscene thrown together showing the building of the pyrimids ... that were already there just, as ubisoft said "to show the passing of time"
    Trust me, you aren't the first one to ... lecture Ubisoft about that. Why they didn't think to show the construction of Alexandria instead, I have no clue. But, then again, they also seem to think Alexandria existed prior to 431 BC because the bio of one of the roving mercenaries in the game mentions her being from there...

    Or, better yet, rather than stop a moment to actually take in the historical location of where Hypocrates ran a hospital, or to take in the beauty of what was once real, meticulously crafted statues or buildings, I'm going to dress as an Abstergo soldier from thousands of years in the future while riding a winged horse like Pegasus!! ... Forget about that, A UNICORN!!! Who doesn't love Unicorns!? They really existed, right!?
    I don't know about you, but I'm not riding Pegasus or a unicorn while dressed as an Abstergo soldier from thousands of years in the future. I have no intention of getting the Abstergo gear set, or Pegasus, and the only reason I have a unicorn is because it was a POB. I literally rode it for five minutes before switched to a regular horse.

    But how do you know unicorns never existed? Because you've never seen one? You've never seen Pluto, but we all know for a fact it's floating around the solar system as we speak.

    Seriously. Assassin's Creed could really be bringing the past to life. It could be telling phenomenal stories and make us truly feel something, like we did when Ezio walked into the ancient, empty library and saw the remains of Altair, or when Ezio, after a long hard life, takes his final breaths as he watches his family, happy and safe in the place where his father and brothers were executed ... Okay obviously animated movies are cool with me. I hope you get the point of what I'm trying to say, cause no I gotta go pretend i didn't shed a couple tears.
    I can't count how many times I've been running through a city in Odyssey and found people dancing, playing music, and singing in the street, kids playing, or passed through a theater to find a play going on. Hell, I was in Elysium and randomly found a major characher playing some wonderful music on a flute that I just sat and listened to for about 10 minutes.

    If that's not "bringing the past to life," I have to question just what your definition of "life" is.
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  6. #6
    Swailing's Avatar Banned
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    This came to mind when exploring the island of Knossos in Oddessy. I'm a history buff and I happen to know that the temple ruins where you ultimately find the Minotaur was discovered in the 18th century. The man who did the archaeological dig was obsessed with Greek mythology and when they found a giant carving of a bull HIS assumption was that they found the temple of King Minos. When they found the stone chair ( which i cant seem to find in the ruins ) HE THOUGHT he had found the throne of King Minos; However, this was all untrue. Later discoveries indicated that although bulls were very important to the residents of the island, they were used ceremonially in a tradition known as bull leaping. We know this due to the many figurines weve found in the ruins over the years of people leaping over bulls. So essentially you took a section of the game and threw history out the window and chose to go with the fiction stuck in the head of the archaeologist who discovered the place.
    Ehhh, no. Odyssey would have had a minotaur fight in it regardless of any claims to an actual site. It would have placed a minotaur's lair wherever seemed to be the most fitting. And here, they're just playing with some scraps of information to give it some grounding.

    It doesn't matter that, in the real world, the archaeology was nonsense. If we were still in the span of AC games featured historical pop-ups and snarky Shaun voiceovers, they would have had Shaun explaining that the archaeology was wrong. And then they probably would have done the Minotaur thing anyway and had Shaun be surprised by it.

    "Let's take all the fun and imagination out of getting from point A to point B, by taking out all the fun free running and parkour moves and just have them be able to climb almost everything ... oh and by the way, to hell with gravity. Just let them jump off mountains, do a flip and roll when they land, they'll be fine."
    1. Unity's spectacular spinning parkour was designed for scattering of relatively even rooftops. Odyssey doesn't have much of that, and where it has them they're not that high up. And frankly, Arno looked pretty weird when he went to more humble, rural locations and was still doing that stuff on one-storey roofs. Expect something similar to return in the future, but not in a setting like this.

    2. Is it more fun to have to climb down everywhere, even when the landscape is a spray of chasms and cliffs? Did you enjoy it more in the early game, when you died from relatively small drops? Maybe you did, but I didn't. I don't mind if it adds something to the game. If, for instance, we're in a dense city and a fall from a six-storey roof is fatal: that might be cool if it adds something to the game (i.e. Guards have come to the rooftops to chase me, but at the height we're at leaping off isn't an option. Not being able to jump away makes things more tense because I'm forced to outsmart them and break line of sight). But if it's a case of me having to cover hundreds of miles for hundreds of hours, let me have some DNA handwaving to make that go away.

    You see, Assassin's Creed is supposed to be more based on reality, but Origins and Oddessy seem to made up of a lot of made up of more hooey than facts.
    Is it, though? AC is meant to be an alternative reality where completely cracked things are true. And taking the series into the ancient world takes it well beyond the reach of fact, at least not in any complete way. We have just enough to form a picture of life back then. We really don't know the details, and that's the stuff that's contemporary to the periods. Here, we're talking about legends that were ancient to them. We don't whether or not a King Minos existed. We don't even know if "Minos" is a name or a title. Shall we leave it all out of the game, then, or have fun with it? Remember, the Minotaur is included in service of the games' giant fantasy element, the Isu. This all helps to cement their fiction and tie up to the 'real' mythology in a good way.



    The only thing that bothers me about historical accuracy is that history usually has gripping stories to tell which are all the juicier for being supported by evidence. That makes it addictive for us, because we feel like history is better than straight fantasy because of that tantalising research. But the series has increasingly avoided finding and using the ready-made stories that were sitting there waiting to be told, even within the timeframe and the location concerned (Unity and Syndicate most egregiously of all). I wish every game's planning began with asking historians, "What are the greatest, most twisted stories from history? Which conpiracies have featured the most complex web of power relationships and skulduggery?" and started the ball rolling from there.

    Well, to be fair the reason the modern day storyline got boring is because they didn't keep doing like they did in AC3, having chunks where you actually play as a modern Assassin, they kept giving into the people that didn't get the importance of it, then you got less and less
    Once it became clear that this series was one of those that would run for multiple decades, the idea of consistently running a story every year or two in which there's a modern day struggle between two global entities who secretly vie for the fate of the world as well as the historical one just becomes self-defeating. The stakes are too high to make that struggle completely front-and-centre. It has to be a little oblique and run alongside the historical game.

    That's unless you're going to include the history that's being made in the real world right now, of course. ACB in particular dangled a really exciting prospect of a series which would have the guts to pick sides in history and the present day. The ACB team would undoubtedly have had something interesting to say about everything that's going on right now, but Ubisoft? Ubisoft has backed away from that. A game about a civil war in Washington DC is described as "not political" by its CD. A game that was clearly inspired by the changes in society that have brought about the Trump era steadfastly refused to say a single thing about it.

    And a company that refuses to say anything distinct on issues of these natures cannot run a detailed modern day game that happens fully in the modern world for that reason. It cannot keep raising the stakes in a story that peaked early with armageddon, and it cannot keep the spotlight in its modern day when the real world has all kinds of fascinating things going on that the game would have to pretend did not exist. Be careful what you wish for, because those "lost" games would have been a frustrating and boring drudge into nothing.

    And forget about unicorns! Don't like them? Don't use them. You could dress Ezio as Raiden in the past.
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  7. #7
    ProdiGurl's Avatar Senior Member
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    Well, to be fair the reason the modern day storyline got boring is because they didn't keep doing like they did in AC3, having chunks where you actually play as a modern Assassin, they kept giving into the people that didn't get the importance of it, then you got less and less.
    I agree. Missed potential sums up MD and imo shaped what it's become today.
    I'd be fine if they removed all of it except maybe the beginning of the game - going into the animus and staying there the entire game - then an Animus ending after you finish the last mission of the main story. No MD intrusion during game whatsoever.
    Like I keep saying, either amp MD up to make it a serious part of the game or end it/keep it as short and non-existent as possible.

    Most of us loved the mystery involved with it in ACII & Brotherhood and when that was taken out, it became boring and immersion breaking to me.
    I also never cared for Desmond's character at all. I felt no bond with him. Maybe not their fault, but it is what it is.

    it's just hard to focus on the real world lives of the Ancient Greeks and some of it's most important historical figures while I'm a demonic looking flaming monstrosity atop a burning horse from hell riding into the petrified forest to frackin' fight Medusa!
    .... I'm going to dress as an Abstergo soldier from thousands of years in the future while riding a winged horse like Pegasus!! ... Forget about that, A UNICORN!!! Who doesn't love Unicorns!? They really existed, right!?
    This is why I mentioned the way they went about Fantasy elements. That flaming horse, Abstergo pack, Unicorns & Pegasus etc. are completely optional.
    Don't like it? Don't buy it, wear it or ride it.... it's there for people like me who can flex our supernatural boundaries and mingle them in a realistic game for fun's sake...
    Medusa was a highlight of the game for me. Medusa is my favorite mythological creature and one of my favorite game moments (all 15 times I tried lol)
    I'm not sure what bosses they could have created in Odyssey if not for some of the main mythological entities? It would have been a serious missed opportunity to leave them out imo.
    I enjoyed the challenge of them and they looked awesome.
    Sorry you didn't enjoy them though, I do get it that everyone has their preferences.
    They just aren't going to be able to please everybody (with anything they do as the AC forums prove to be the case).

    As for shedding a few tears, mine were shed after Ezio was gone w/ Revelations. The following few games were very empty and sad to me but it wasn't their fault..

    I love the nostalgia of our older games, I started w/ Brotherhood which is my FAV older game & am a diehard Ezio fanatic but the series (you can blame missed opportunity and/or outdated tech limitations etc.) needed a drastic overhaul and draw to bring new player interest to this series.
    Plenty of AC fans were less enthusiastic about our games, not pre-ordering like they were, etc.

    They've made the right move imo but we'll always have our older games. NOTHING will ever be as awesome as a brand new/early game series when it's a new concept & fresh content.
    As time drags on, those things aren't as new & exciting anymore.... and here we are.
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  8. #8
    cawatrooper9's Avatar AC Forum Moderator
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    Originally Posted by ProdiGurl Go to original post
    Like I keep saying, either amp MD up to make it a serious part of the game or end it/keep it as short and non-existent as possible.

    100% agreed (though with a bias leaning toward making it better).

    I think a huge reason a lot of new fans don't like the modern day is that they haven't really experienced it at its full potential.

    Spoiler:  Show


    The "floating tablet" in Black Flag or cutscenes in Syndicate set up an incredibly intriguing plot, but we never really got to cash in on it quite like we did with Desmond. I'm definitely hoping that the trajectory of Layla's story is committed to going in a satisfying and interesting direction. And honestly, while Odyssey didn't give her a ton of screentime, I think it really set up one of the most fascinating MD story potentials that we've seen since Juno's introduction.
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  9. #9
    Mushashi7's Avatar Senior Member
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    HISTORICAL ACCURACY

    The historical accuracy is something I can relate to. This is what gives the game a unique experience. I find this very interesting indeed as I am very interested in history, especially Egypt, Rome and Greece.
    I also think Ubisoft should stay very close to history to keep the unique approach. It gives the game an immense solid foundation you don't see anywhere else. It also adds the aura of something genuine and original (they already know this of course).

    But you need to have free space to create an exiting story with more or less fictive characters. There's no point in picking a historical person and retell it. We have the history books if we're in need. Of course it can be exiting to relive a historical persons life, but we need to give game developers some slack. I think Ubisoft did a pretty good job with Odyssey by using some historical personalities like Sokratis, Herodotos etc.

    The important thing is to maintain immersion and historical facts as a whole. You mention the example with the kretan bull. I think Ubisoft did stay inside immersion and facts in general. You see the bull everywhere on Krete. And placing the Minotaur underneath the minoan ruins is acceptable. This is where the slack comes in.
    Some argued Alkibiades is completely out of context. I tend to agree in this particular case. Alkibiades as the historical person was no where near the way Ubisoft presents him. But then again, the game would loose a LOT without him. I wonder if it was possible to find another 'famous person' and use his name instead of Alkibiades. Alkibiades was a very cunning person skilled in politics. But if he was bisexual and lived like he does in the game, I don't think so.

    IMMERSION

    As for the superman-jump off mountains I do them if I'm in a REAL hurry, but else I always climb down. I hate breaking immersion and realism. But you do have the option not to jump of a mountain, right?
    And you don't have to buy the weapons, horses and armor sets in the shop if you don't like them. They are not present in the base game.

    My last remark is that I think Ubisoft has widened the game with Odyssey and made space for much more exiting games with an even larger scale of options for creation. The implemented role play elements is just what was needed. I can tell, it's the the first reason of three I play this game:

    1. Role play.
    2. Open world.
    3. Historical accuracy.
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  10. #10
    Historical accuracy is good but this is a Game! What about myths and legends? No one wants dry historic game. And who told you that Minotaur didn't exist?!!! History is full of mysteries and it must be presented somehow in such a big game as Assassin's Creed. In this case Ubisoft is doing everything right! More mysticism! More legends and myths!
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