1. #1

    Revision of my Hybrid knight "The Exile."

    Just a little bit before the meat of the post. I appreciate everyone's feedback. I'm not planning on making yet another thread on this hero after this one. So if I need to make further adjustments to his story or his design I will edit this post. Anyway, onto the rewrite.


    The Exile


    Backround:

    The Exile is a former captain aiding the knights. Prior to meeting the knight faction he was a mercenary for higher. It wasn't the most glamerous or respectful job but it put food on the table. Still, he'd wished for something more..a higher calling. One day a knight from the Iron Legion had picked up his calling card and requested aid. The knight and his group were to go answer a distress call about a village that was being repeatedly raided by the vikings everytime their crop came in.

    Our hero was a bit hesitant at first, he'd heard of the rumors of how savage and brutal the Vikings can be. But, the pay he was being offered was nothing to shrug off. Still, he wasn't quite sure. So the Iron Legion Warden made him an offer. If they managed to sucessfully stave off the Viking raid he'd speak to more members of the group about signing him up as an official Iron Legion member.

    This was it, this is his chance at something more than just mercenary work. He could make a difference. Our hero nodded in agreement "by the way, the names Thane." "Thane eh?" the Warden said plainly, "well if you're going to join our group you'll have to use something a bit less...barbaric." The Warden Gesturing towards Thane's Morning star. "Sorry but no, see me in action with it first. Then we can talk about changing my equipment." Warden let out a tired sigh and shook his head slowly. "Alright fine, have it your way. Just do your job."

    It was a few days of travel before reaching the village with nothing much happening in between. Once they arrived Thane, the Warden and a few other members of the Iron Legion quickly took some high ground on the outskirts of the village to take a look at the situation. It had been decided that Thane was going to swing around back of the village to scout out the place. Maybe sabotage some of the boats the vikings came in on to pinch them in the center of the village. Thane had managed to do so relatively easy. But on his way back he spotted the Warden alone fighting off 2 vikings all by himself. One of the Iron Legion's men already dead and the other no where to be found.

    The smart thing would have been for him to find the other member and then support the Warden. Or maybe even retreat. He'd not get paid but at least he'd be alive. But Thane didn't like any of those ideas. So he rushed in to aid the Warden. Even though it was now an even fight the Vikings still lived up to the rumors. They were no push overs. Luckily Warden had already wounded one. So with some lucky dodges and a heavy swing Thane took down the wounded Viking. Good thing too because Warden was about to be decapitated. Thane bull rushed him smacking him in the thigh to wound the viking. But Thane was now exhausted and vulnerable on the ground. Before the Viking could finish Thane off the Warden struck him down.

    "Thanks for that Warden, I was afraid you'd died of shock over there." Warden out stretched his hand. Thane gave a hearty laugh and then firmly grabbed Warden's forearm and pulled himself up. "Well i'll be damned. I guess you do know a thing or two about combat. Though I still don't think your weapon is suitable for the kind of work we do i'll let you keep it on one condition." Thane smirked "Oh? and what would that be?" "That when we go sign you up to be a member you submit yourself to some formal training." Warden replies, "Deal." Said Thane.

    And so this is how Thane became a member of the Iron Legion and eventually commanding his own small group of men as a captain. Fast forward a year from now. Thane and his men along with the Warden and his men were sent to go reclaim an old keep that used to belong to the Iron Legion. It is now overrun by Vikings and was considered an official foothold by the Iron legion. This is not acceptable. In addition to Thane and Warden's group there was another group being lead by the commander of them all. A Lawbringer.

    The siege was going just as planned. But Thane's group got seperated from Warden's. They were to meet up in the center of the keep to regroup and make a final push. However Warden once again found himself surrounded. This time there was far too many for just him and the Warden to handle. The Lawbringer had ordered a retreat so they could bring back more men to crush the problem. But Thane didn't want to leave him behind. Thane ordered his men to leave with the Lawbringer. "If you go back in there you're officially a deserter!" The Lawbringer yelled, "Fine by me! I don't want to fight along side cowards!" Than yelled back. Thane rushed in alone.

    Warden had a few good men left by the time Thane managed to regroup. The Vikings fully aware of the situation slowly encircled the small group snarling and laughing. "Just so you know, we were ordered to retreat" Thane said calmly. Warden readied his sword, "and you didn't listen!?" "I couldn't leave a friend behind." Warden scoffed. It was a long and bloody fight. The Warden ended up losing his life. Thane managed to drive off the threat for the time being. About a day or so later Lawbringer marched into the keep with ease.

    Thane had been sitting right where the fight had finished. Morning the loss of his friend still. "You still live" The Lawbringer said with almost pure disbelief. "what of the vikings?" Thane stood up angrily spewing words at the Lawbringer. "The Vikings? Who cares? Do you not feel for the loss of your men?" "Answer the question" Lawbringer said coldly. "The Vikings have retreated. The keep is ours." Thane muttered. "Good." Lawbringer gestured towards a different Warden who put shackles on Thane. "What are you doing!?" Thane screamed. "I told you, Disobey orders and you're a deserter."

    Thane was locked away for quite some time. Eventually the Cataclysm happened. The Iron legion desperate to keep their land safe started pardoning prisoners if they would be willing to fight for them. Thane was among the last of the prisoners to be approached. Lawbringer opened into his cell and gave him the deal he's given all other prisoners. "I'd rather die in a cell than die under your command" Thane said angrily. "That may be, But i'm willing to bet there are others you hate more than me." Thane met the Lawbringers gaze. "We're officially at war. With both the samurai AND the Vikings. If you agree to fight for the Iron Legion once more i'll make sure you get to spill as much Viking blood as you can handle." Thane stood up from his cell and approached the Lawbringer. "Fine. I'll fight for you. But as soon as this war is over you better put me back in a cell or kill me. Because if you don't i'm coming for you." The Lawbringer chuckled lightly and thrusted Thane's old weapon into his hands. "To battle then!" Lawbringer roared.



    The fighting style/fantasy:

    The Exile is a hybrid hero equipped with a two handed morning star. Thane's training and experience with the weapon makes him a powerful force on the field. He's not easily toppled or stopped. The hatred still burns inside The Exile's belly even after all this time. This is shown in his powerful blows and his fondness of maiming his enemies. Due to The Exile's backround of being an ex mercenary and a convict he's also not a "by the book" fighter. Will use unorthedox methods to achieve their goal. This would include things like using the enemies own weapon to execute them. Or having mixed types of armor.

    The Weapon The Exile wields is a two handed morning star. The Armor he starts with is tattered cloth and wraps with some old rusted chain mail with a standard captain's helmet and some forearm and shin guards. The Primary high tier gear is comprised of his old friend Warden's armor mixed with some viking trophies he's claimed and modified to fit with his armor. Think some battle warn plate with a leather under suit and some viking bones attached asymetrically on the armor.


    Moveset:

    Hero specific:

    Renown- The exile gets extra renown from killing other heros.

    Revenge mode- The exile's revenge mode works the same as everyone elses.

    Maim effect- The Exile can Maim his opponent. Causing the opponent unable to roll or sprint away at full speed. Their walk speed is also reduced.
    Applied from sinister grip or a charged heavy. Can refresh maim effect but only if you alternate how you apply it. (stalwart banner clears maim effect)

    Iron Legion training- Mid chain lights have the enhanced property. mid chain heavies are undodgable. Light finishers blind the opponent.

    Fighting Dirty- The Exile will seek every opportunity to get the advantage over his foes. Blocked heavies can be followed up with a guaranteed light attack that chains. Alternatively the Exile can input a guard break attempt instead. It's not guaranteed but it is a command grab that throws you on the ground.

    Tightened grip- All heavies can be charged. All heavies have armor.


    Combos/special moves:

    Might of the Morning star- any 3 hit combo that starts with a light.

    Doom of the morning star- any 3 hit combo that starts with a heavy.

    Sinister grip- Back gb input. Small wind up effect. Untechable if it lands. Throws you back. Applies Maim. Can be charged for better tracking.

    Burning Hatred- two hit zone attack. Both considered heavies. Both can charge. First hit is a wide forward sweeping hit. Second hit is an overhead attack. Second hit of zone can be soft feinted into gut check.

    Pure brutality- Can dodge forward or backwards heavy. Backwards is an upper cut hit. Forwards is an overhead attack. Both can be charged. Both can be soft feinted with a light input. Upper cut soft feints into a hip check hit. Overhead hit soft feints into a side smash to the temple. Both inflict bleed.

    Gut check- Parry counter GB input. Exile flips his Morning star around and thrusts the pommel into your gut. Blinds. Does stamina damage. If you're maimed it knocks you on the ground too.


    Feats:

    Tier 1- Impressive strength!- active feat. Heavy attacks do stamina damage. More if they're blocked.
    Bounty hunter, come at me.

    Tier 2- Filled with anger- Active feat. Maim effect lasts longer (default is 7 seconds with feat it's 12.) and opening light is enhanced.
    Marked for death, Blood lust.

    Tier 3- Horrifying strength!- Active feat. Attacks cost half their normal stamina cost. Blind effect duration is increased to 400ms. Throws do damage.
    Juggernaut, Second wind.

    Tier 4- Won't back down. passive feat. Upon taking fatal damage (barring feats) your health is set to 1 and you receive half of a revenge shield. Landing attacks heal you with deminishing returns the more HP you have. (attacks no longer heal when HP is full.) undying effect is on a 45 second cooldown or until you have full health.
    stalwart banner, Moral booster.


    Closing notes:

    Thanks for reading again and thanks for coming by and giving feedback. I would especially appreciate feedback on my created feats this time around as it's my first time attempting to make some. But I will appreciate feedback on anything abut the hero.

    EDIT: Changed unblockable feat in tier 4 out with stalwart banner. Added internal cooldown to Grudge passive feat. Made note in Maim section stating Stalwart banner removes Maim effect.

    EDIT 2: Changed grudge from passive to active and changed it's effect.

    EDIT 3: Gave mercenary's training effect to Iron Legion training and removed original Iron Legion training effect.

    EDIT 4: Replaced rock steady with Juggernaut. Changed Grudge feat to "filled with anger" feat. Rebalanced "horrifying strength" feat.

    EDIT 5: Changed/rebalanced Tier 4 feat "won't back down."

    EDIT 6: Added charge feature to sinister grip. Changed wording on tier 4 feat to be more clear.
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  2. #2
    Iím back! And this one is better, I like the back story as itís very appropriate this time.

    You kept the spine of the character while simplifying it. Everything you revised works great and a bit more fair as far as the normal kit goes.

    So how long do you suggest that maim lasts? And does it duration change from how you applied it?

    Also you have a red flag for your feats.
    You have unblockable as a feat but undodgeable mid combo heavies. Just letting you know. Otherwise good work and a good revision.
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Sneakly20 Go to original post
    I’m back! And this one is better, I like the back story as it’s very appropriate this time.

    You kept the spine of the character while simplifying it. Everything you revised works great and a bit more fair as far as the normal kit goes.

    So how long do you suggest that maim lasts? And does it duration change from how you applied it?

    Also you have a red flag for your feats.
    You have unblockable as a feat but undodgeable mid combo heavies. Just letting you know. Otherwise good work and a good revision.
    Yeah. I left some gaps in the backround so if I need to explain some things or change some things it would be easier.
    Maim I hadn't decided on a time yet. 5 seconds was the first time that jumped to my head. But that seemed too short. Since the main benefit from maim really is just preventing someone from escaping. 10 seconds was the next time I thought but i'm unsure if that's too long because you can techinically refresh the effect. What do you think might be a fair time?

    Nah. regardless of how you apply it it's the same time. And refreshing it is exactly that. You don't get extended time by re applying. So like if I re apply it with 2 seconds left it jumps back up to 5 (if 5 were the timer.) and if I applied it again at 4 seconds it would go back up to 5.

    The one thing i'm still not sure on the effect is how to communicate the effect. Like limping when trying to sprint is an option. But I mean like visually in the UI how does someone know the debuff is applied.

    Yeah I figured that might be too much. What feat would you suggest I replace unblockable with? And are you sure his specific feats are fine?
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  4. #4
    I'm liking this hero concept a lot more than the previous version!

    I actually don't really have any remarks apart from the fighting dirty move. making the light confirmed might be a bit overkill since there already is a mindgame: the light attack or the 'sweep' (not sure what else to call it). This way the opponent has to guess. he'll either get caught with the gb and gets dropped or he attempts cgb but gets 'booped'.
    EDIT: But then again raw heavies tend to be parried more than blocked... You know what? No, it's fine!

    Backstory is waaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better! He finally has personality!
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    Yeah. I left some gaps in the backround so if I need to explain some things or change some things it would be easier.
    Maim I hadn't decided on a time yet. 5 seconds was the first time that jumped to my head. But that seemed too short. Since the main benefit from maim really is just preventing someone from escaping. 10 seconds was the next time I thought but i'm unsure if that's too long because you can techinically refresh the effect. What do you think might be a fair time?

    Nah. regardless of how you apply it it's the same time. And refreshing it is exactly that. You don't get extended time by re applying. So like if I re apply it with 2 seconds left it jumps back up to 5 (if 5 were the timer.) and if I applied it again at 4 seconds it would go back up to 5.

    The one thing i'm still not sure on the effect is how to communicate the effect. Like limping when trying to sprint is an option. But I mean like visually in the UI how does someone know the debuff is applied.

    Yeah I figured that might be too much. What feat would you suggest I replace unblockable with? And are you sure his specific feats are fine?
    I think between 5 and 10 is good. But Iím betting on the lower end ( maybe 5 or even up to 7) simply because refreshing it isnít the hardest thing to do. Which is fine as far the kit goes. Also to communicate it, purple is no longer an effect color in the game I believe. So you can go with that or have streams of whatever color effect seep into the ground from the legs giving it a rooted look.

    As far as feats go you replaced unblockable which was the main offender. Stalwart banner is better.

    As for the rest, your character is meant to prevent escape and he has the tools to do so. Also he has his mixup game and hits hard. But fighting him doesnít need to be harder than necessary. By that I mean rocksteady needs to go. Unless you have a personal revision for the feat that you can edit in, itís too strong. And Iím not talking for the Exile by itself. The feat is strong regardless of whatever character itís on. The only reason it hasnít been messed with is because the only two characters that have it aren't strong/ easily avoided. Otherwise it prevents punishes and breaks the fight system, for a character that generally keeps you locked in anyway, a head to head fight doesnít need to be one-sided.

    For his specific feats;

    1. Impressive strength can work as long as the stamina damage isnít crazy, if your opponent tries everything to attack and defend within the timeframe of the feat, they will be out of stamina quickly. But again this is numbers. Feat itself is fine.

    2. Grudge is cool but being realistic it may just need to be a self buff. Dropping the target or switching is punishing especially if you are capable of applying maim to multiple people, in my eyes maim is not powerful enough to be worried about single target.

    3. You may need to explain the enhanced a bit more, and what do you mean longer stun time? Hitstun for the attacks or an actual stun?

    My personal preference is a no on double chip damage, that damage adds up quickly especially with the kind of set up the exile has, and that one feat with block damage does the same thing when it was nerfed; doubles the block damage and thatís a whole feat itself, so personally I believe the feat is enough without it. For example, if you block a heavy that does 8 chip damage, that jumps to 16 and that 16 plus the light from ďfighting dirtyĒ nets you 20+ damage that chains from throwing one heavy and it simply getting blocked. I understand itís an active feat but thatís a little much when you look at the grand scheme of things.

    4. This a good tier 4 feat, mostly because it gets stronger the better the player is, essentially tiandi tier 3 and 4 in one. I actually suggest it to be a passive. You have the healing and even given a good shield and it simply activates once you take the final blow and have to get back to full health to get the final blow back but youíll keep the healing until you get a certain health threshold.

    If you do turn it to a passive however, there needs to be a work around similar to last laugh, fatal blow can be as simple as a light to as extreme as catapult. With that being said I do believe GB heavy is a kill but wonít trigger it, that way you keep it. With that threat there it keeps the feat in line so the exile player knows they canít go full metal jacket with no drawbacks.

    If you decide to keep it active then it needs to either have quick animation or longer active time or both. Because I definitely see the shield and heal getting used more way more than actually receiving the final blow because the healing with throw your health back up.

    Edit: on feat 3, when I mean grand scheme of things, Iím talking that unless your beginning heavies net you over 30 damage thereís literally less than a 10 point damage difference in landing a heavy or getting it blocked, either way this character hurts a lot, I understand that this is a heavy hitter but again the damage adds up. Unlike most characters or any characters the exile doesnít actually have to land many hits to beat an opponent.
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  6. #6
    UbiInsulin's Avatar Community Manager
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    I really enjoyed the backstory. It's a pretty complete character arc.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by rottmeister Go to original post
    I'm liking this hero concept a lot more than the previous version!

    I actually don't really have any remarks apart from the fighting dirty move. making the light confirmed might be a bit overkill since there already is a mindgame: the light attack or the 'sweep' (not sure what else to call it). This way the opponent has to guess. he'll either get caught with the gb and gets dropped or he attempts cgb but gets 'booped'.
    EDIT: But then again raw heavies tend to be parried more than blocked... You know what? No, it's fine!

    Backstory is waaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better! He finally has personality!
    Can you clarify what sweep you're talking about? Are you referring to the fact that he could go for a gb after a blocked heavy instead of a light?
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    Can you clarify what sweep you're talking about? Are you referring to the fact that he could go for a gb after a blocked heavy instead of a light?
    Yes, I did, but just nevermind what I wrote there. I edited in later that I was fine with how it worked.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Sneakly20 Go to original post
    I think between 5 and 10 is good. But I’m betting on the lower end ( maybe 5 or even up to 7) simply because refreshing it isn’t the hardest thing to do. Which is fine as far the kit goes. Also to communicate it, purple is no longer an effect color in the game I believe. So you can go with that or have streams of whatever color effect seep into the ground from the legs giving it a rooted look.

    As far as feats go you replaced unblockable which was the main offender. Stalwart banner is better.

    As for the rest, your character is meant to prevent escape and he has the tools to do so. Also he has his mixup game and hits hard. But fighting him doesn’t need to be harder than necessary. By that I mean rocksteady needs to go. Unless you have a personal revision for the feat that you can edit in, it’s too strong. And I’m not talking for the Exile by itself. The feat is strong regardless of whatever character it’s on. The only reason it hasn’t been messed with is because the only two characters that have it aren't strong/ easily avoided. Otherwise it prevents punishes and breaks the fight system, for a character that generally keeps you locked in anyway, a head to head fight doesn’t need to be one-sided.

    For his specific feats;

    1. Impressive strength can work as long as the stamina damage isn’t crazy, if your opponent tries everything to attack and defend within the timeframe of the feat, they will be out of stamina quickly. But again this is numbers. Feat itself is fine.

    2. Grudge is cool but being realistic it may just need to be a self buff. Dropping the target or switching is punishing especially if you are capable of applying maim to multiple people, in my eyes maim is not powerful enough to be worried about single target.

    3. You may need to explain the enhanced a bit more, and what do you mean longer stun time? Hitstun for the attacks or an actual stun?

    My personal preference is a no on double chip damage, that damage adds up quickly especially with the kind of set up the exile has, and that one feat with block damage does the same thing when it was nerfed; doubles the block damage and that’s a whole feat itself, so personally I believe the feat is enough without it. For example, if you block a heavy that does 8 chip damage, that jumps to 16 and that 16 plus the light from “fighting dirty” nets you 20+ damage that chains from throwing one heavy and it simply getting blocked. I understand it’s an active feat but that’s a little much when you look at the grand scheme of things.

    4. This a good tier 4 feat, mostly because it gets stronger the better the player is, essentially tiandi tier 3 and 4 in one. I actually suggest it to be a passive. You have the healing and even given a good shield and it simply activates once you take the final blow and have to get back to full health to get the final blow back but you’ll keep the healing until you get a certain health threshold.

    If you do turn it to a passive however, there needs to be a work around similar to last laugh, fatal blow can be as simple as a light to as extreme as catapult. With that being said I do believe GB heavy is a kill but won’t trigger it, that way you keep it. With that threat there it keeps the feat in line so the exile player knows they can’t go full metal jacket with no drawbacks.

    If you decide to keep it active then it needs to either have quick animation or longer active time or both. Because I definitely see the shield and heal getting used more way more than actually receiving the final blow because the healing with throw your health back up.

    Edit: on feat 3, when I mean grand scheme of things, I’m talking that unless your beginning heavies net you over 30 damage there’s literally less than a 10 point damage difference in landing a heavy or getting it blocked, either way this character hurts a lot, I understand that this is a heavy hitter but again the damage adds up. Unlike most characters or any characters the exile doesn’t actually have to land many hits to beat an opponent.
    This is the kind of detailed feedback that I like!

    So I was thinking 7 seconds for Default Maim time. But with his tier 2 grudge I was thinking of making the extended length from his tier feat 10-12 seconds. What do you think?

    I personally disagree with how potent rock steady is. Though I do understand it's gripe people have. The inclusion of the feat was meant to give Exile the feeling of sort of an impassable wall. I still want to capture this feeling. So would you think hard to kill or juggernaut is better to replace it?

    So the reason I based it on locking on is because of the name sake of the perk. If it's a self buff with the same effect then the name doesn't really fit. I had already tried other ideas as far as effect goes. But they either sounded too similar to things we already have (like marked for death) or simply boring like doing more damage to one specific person. In reality I don't need to keep the name and would be fine with making it just a personal buff. But i'd like a clarification from you. Are you calling to attention on this feat because you think the way it works is limited/clunky? Or is there some other reason?

    The enhanced part was just fancy word play on my part. What the perk does is double chip damage, reduce the cost of your attacks stamina wise, and block/hit stun lasts longer. Fair point about the chip damage though. I hadn't thought about it in regards to numbers yet. I can drop that part. As doing harder hit stuns and costing less stamina on attacks is already a significant enough of a buff.

    I like the way you're working approaching the tier 4 feat. I thought making it active was a good idea for two main reasons. First being active means it's easier to play around the idea that the guy literally can't die from anything so it could be used in an aggressive manner (such as tanking a catapult) and makes it easy to understand when the undying effect is on cooldown. If I went passive with it I feel like i'd have to give him a limit to what can and can't kill him (like you already mentioned) and maybe even give a full revenge shield if he nets a kill. I'd also have to mention the internal cooldown for when he gets his undying effect back. Because as nice as your idea is about having it reset on full health that includes other healing sources. Meaning he could have a higher up time on the undying aspect than intended.

    then again....If feats are capable of killing him there is a clear counter play to his undying trait. hmm.

    So which would you rather have/play against?

    A 40-50 second active perk where nothing kills the guy and he gets heals on hits and gets half a revenge shield on a kill that doesn't refresh?

    or

    A passive perk where the effects don't trigger until lethal damage (feats still outright kill him,) in which he gains up to a full revenge shield with the ability to heal on hits and the undying effect comes back once he's hit full health?

    Also almost forgot. But I think purple is used as the defense debuff effect. Or is my tv colors wrong? (good chance they might be haha.)
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  10. #10
    Originally Posted by UbiInsulin Go to original post
    I really enjoyed the backstory. It's a pretty complete character arc.
    Thanks! There's still some details I could flesh out. But I wanted to not write a whole novel for the hero in the same post as detailing his kit.
    Maybe if the devs approach me for my idea i'll write a novel for them ;p

    Originally Posted by rottmeister Go to original post
    Yes, I did, but just nevermind what I wrote there. I edited in later that I was fine with how it worked.
    Ah. Yeah I can see the worry. However because the GB is techable I think it'll end up in the same situation quick throw is. In that most people will expect the GB since the light is guaranteed. So they won't be looking for the light after. However I feel the situation is a bit better than quick throws. Just because it's locked behind heavies which have more interesting things going on in his kit. And the guaranteed chain light existing means it truely is something you could probably get away with on occasion by randomly using it. But against seasoned players you're far less likely to have it land.

    My personal worry about him as far as moves goes is sinister grip. The wind up time is meant to balance the fact that it's untechable and essentially a raw grab from neutral. So kind of like Tiandi palm levels of predicting but slightly easier due to wind up. That in itself might kill the move outside ganking. The other part of it is the tracking. If I increase the tracking so it can deal with dodges of some kind it severely reduces the counterplay to it. I still want him to have an untechable command grab as the loop of keeping someone from being able to flee is core to his kit. but I'm having difficulty balancing said grab.
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