Without dedicated leaderboards, the 25€ standard edition is now completely useless | Forums

[I-Fazo-I]

your rank always has something to do with you belonging to a relatively small group of ppl that decided to put in more time to get higher regardless of how many different leaderboards you add. someone could just as much use the same argument saying i actually tried to get good times on ALL tracks while you put all your time "just" into the main game and therefor giving you a better rank in the base game leaderboards. you then belong to the relatively small number of speedrunners who didn't even bother grinding dlc which does not really accurately reflect your skill.

i get everyones point, but the reality is that its all about getting more opportunities to brag. more leaderboards means more chances to get a top rank hence why everyone likes the region leaderboard so much. i wouldn't mind it but at the end if you really care about your rank you will buy the dlc anyways so i can understand not cluttering the leaderboard menu even more if not really necessarily

[FR_Dam143]

your rank always has something to do with you belonging to a relatively small group of ppl that decided to put in more time to get higher regardless of how many different leaderboards you add.

The key point here is YOU get to decide if you want to put that much time into it or not. And everyone has equal opportunities to begin with. I's not your credit card that's deciding who can compete for top spots and who is discriminated and locked out of it. This is the core rule of any competition, sport or discipline worth of its name.

You wouldn't watch your favorite championship if half the team gets to play 40 matches a season to earn points when others who paid the organizators get to play 60 matches a season, would you? What value would the final rankings have at the end of the season? None. It's the same here! Its in everyone long term interest that we keep access to base game 124 tracks global leaderboards. It's the one competition everyone who own the game has access too!

[fleskeknoke]

if you really care about your rank you will buy the dlc anyways

I believe this is exactly how Ubisoft think,
so again; the OP is absolutely spot on when he says: Pay2Win.

[Scruffy McGuffy]

This is the first I've heard of the global leaderboard being an esport.

If you drew a Venn diagram with the number of people super concerned about their global leaderboard rank and the number of people buying the dlc, it would be a perfect circle.

Yes, they should probably do multiple leaderboards, but the base game has not suddenly become "completely useless", nor is it P2W. I own the DLC, and if I go into the MP right now I don't suddenly have a win button. As I compete on each track, I don't have a faster bike or whatever. It's still the same. I have no advantages on any track or any event because I own the DLC.

With regards global leaderboard position, it's not exactly accurate anyway. What about scores not tracking due to the 5 year old bug they have with losing connection? I beat the first Ninja track, and I have the exact same 0 score that anyone who's never even played it has. There are probably a lot of players there with 1 hour played or less, and there are a lot of inactive players I'm sure. So does it really mean much to care about your rank relative to them? If you really want a fair comparison with other players you'd have to strike off a ton of inactive players, or players who tried it briefly then sold it or got a refund. I can see it mattering a lot if you're near the top few hundred, but again anyone in that position is surely buying the DLC so it all works out. You're making it sound like the game doesn't even function without DLC. Let's keep some perspective.

[I-Fazo-I]

Sure you can be overdramatic about it if you want. You sound like you care about leaderboards/your rank and just like i said bc of that you will buy the dlc and play it just like everyone else that competes regardless if they have separated leaderboards or not.

Your analogy is kinda weird and doesn't really compare at all with a 20$ dlc for a video game.
The thing is just bc someone decides to take a look at their ranking, doesn't mean that they're competing. Ppl that just play the main game don't really care about competing. Yeah, they try to improve their times and look at the leaderboards and their rankings, they get excited when moving up just like every trials player does but that doesn't mean that they're dead serious about it like you make it out to be.

It would make much more sense saying how much more interesting it would be to have more specific leaderboards maybe even difficutly leaderboards etc. essentially giving everyone something to chase after instead of this whole Pay2Win end of the world drama.

What i'm trying to say is i can agree with you 100% but then again 2 seconds later it turns into whatever bc that's what it is.

[I-Fazo-I]

I believe this is exactly how Ubisoft think,
so again; the OP is absolutely spot on when he says: Pay2Win.

I never said he was wrong. It's just whatever.

no separated leaderboards = he buys the dlc
separated leaderboards = he buys the dlc

same result.

sure we can sit here and wait for the one guy that tries really really hard but for some reason hates new trials tracks.
in the meantime we take it how it is and that's whatever.

[StopwatchFun]

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

OP drops the mic with some very basic, indisputable logic, and everybody is losing their minds. This stuff may not matter all that much to you, but logically, in terms of making the game properly, splitting the leaderboards is the only way to do things.

And guess what, I bought the DLC and I still care that things are properly split up. I made a stink about this sort of thing years ago, and was met with the same bewilderment.

There are so many reasons why it’s important, and they’ve been mentioned already. I’ll add another, specific to Rising. Rising has been a tremendous dissapointment to tons of its players. There are likely many players who feel like the game’s level of quality is not high enough to warrant purchasing more content. However, they already own the game, and still play it seeing as how they paid good money for it.

Now, just 2 months after launch, these people are being buried. It’s a huge middle finger to all those who only have the base game. And let’s not forget, any prospective buyers to come in the future. The base game is practically useless for them.

I mean there is no way you can look at this as a consumer and find any fair upside. It literally only exists to twist your arm into buying more content. Wake up.

[FR_Dam143]

This is the first I've heard of the global leaderboard being an esport.

You can replace e-sport by competitive hobby if you prefer. Man you are really nitpicking on some weird stuff. It's a competitive game with global leaderboards being the way to measure your overall progress and compete with friends and other riders, period. That's the entire premise of Trials series, what do you think those friends notifications, leaderboards and "Try Again!" trailer are for? Seriously...

the base game has not suddenly become "completely useless", nor is it P2W. I own the DLC, and if I go into the MP right now I don't suddenly have a win button. As I compete on each track, I don't have a faster bike or whatever. It's still the same. I have no advantages on any track or any event because I own the DLC.

But you do. It doesn't matter that you still have the same bike on individual tracks or don't have a win button. You now earn global score on 149 tracks, each equally worth 300 000 points. Where people that don't pay the extra money but own the base-game can only ever earn global score on 125 of those tracks and thus don't stand a chance with you. It doesn't get more Pay2win that that. Not my opinion vs yours here, this is fact. And please stop talking about MP or individual tracks leaderboards. We're talking here about the global leaderboards of main Carreer Mode!

There are probably a lot of players there with 1 hour played or less, and there are a lot of inactive players I'm sure. So does it really mean much to care about your rank relative to them? If you really want a fair comparison with other players you'd have to strike off a ton of inactive players, or players who tried it briefly then sold it or got a refund.

Fair competition doesn't mean everyone is forced to play the same amount of time, it means everyone has same starting chances and opportunities, no matter if they buy optional DLC or not.

I can see it mattering a lot if you're near the top few hundred, but again anyone in that position is surely buying the DLC so it all works out..

I am top 100 (well I was, now I got artificially pushed back to 1500+ because I didn't pay, but no P2W right) and I'm pretty content at the moment with running the regular 124 tracks competition. Please note for the 15th times that it's not about my rank itself, it's about the ability of everyone to retain a fair and relevant rank. Without that, a competitive game loses many of the interest. And that will be the same issue once the game stabilize and I buy the DLC.

As someone else said, where is the fun in progressing only because you paid more than the others? It's lame and unexciting. I will still be very much into the 124 tracks competition once I get the extra ones, so enough of questioning wether or not I care too much about my rank. It's not the point at all here.

You're making it sound like the game doesn't even function without DLC. Let's keep some perspective.

I played Rocket League for the last 4 years, another competitive game (very successful this one) and not once did it ask me for extra money if I wanted to retain my right to compete fairly with others for top ranks. 4 years man, not once: Trials Rising does that in 2 months So I think you need perspective here because none of that is normal by any standard.

The OP is absolutely correct. People absolutely made the same complaint in Fusion, as you can see here https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...-1-leaderboard

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I thought no one ever had an issue with it in Fusion according to Lionden1, but here comes the 11 pages thread. Hmm, why am I not surprised? Lets have Rising not go the same way please. Pay2win leaderboards will only hurt the longevity and frequentation of the game in the long run. No one can win from this.

[Scruffy McGuffy]

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. OP drops the mic with some very basic, indisputable logic, and everybody is losing their minds. This stuff may not matter all that much to you, but logically, in terms of making the game properly, splitting the leaderboards is the only way to do things.

[...]

Now, just 2 months after launch, these people are being buried. It’s a huge middle finger to all those who only have the base game. And let’s not forget, any prospective buyers to come in the future. The base game is practically useless for them.

You too? The base game is either "practically useless" or "completely useless"? Give me a break. The base game is still fine. Can we please dispense with that melodramatic nonsense?

Everyone agrees multiple leaderboards is a fine way to go. The only thing people disagree on is that some don't think it's that big a deal, and some think it's destroyed the game, which it hasn't. Meanwhile, even in this topic, 100% of the players super concerned about their leaderboard position have or will own the DLC. Strangely, none of them are concerned about the leaderboards having non-active players, or players who sold or refunded the game after an hour, or bugs which prevent scores being added, all of which may inflate their position in the leaderboard and make their percentile seem better than it really is. I guess the sanctity of the leaderboards only matters when it comes to players above them.

[StopwatchFun]

You too? The base game is either "practically useless" or "completely useless"? Give me a break. The base game is still fine. Can we please dispense with that melodramatic nonsense?

Everyone agrees multiple leaderboards is a fine way to go. The only thing people disagree on is that some don't think it's that big a deal, and some think it's destroyed the game, which it hasn't. Meanwhile, even in this topic, 100% of the players super concerned about their leaderboard position have or will own the DLC. Strangely, none of them are concerned about the leaderboards having non-active players, or players who sold or refunded the game after an hour, or bugs which prevent scores being added, all of which may inflate their position in the leaderboard and make their percentile seem better than it really is. I guess the sanctity of the leaderboards only matters when it comes to players above them.

No one has any control over apathetic players dropping out, or people getting refunds, which is besides, neither here nor there.

And yes, I mean the base game becomes useless. Adding DLC effectively breaks a core function of the base game. You no longer can compete. How is this not getting through?

And this logic is about the whole picture. It has nothing at all to do with my personal circumstance. Now, anecdotally, while I said I have the DLC, that’s only because I bought the Gold edition, trusting that the game would be a fun, quality experience. I was wrong. Had I just bought the base game, I would’ve cut my losses there, and done what I said in my previous post, just play the base game to get my money’s worth. So then I’d absolutely be pissed Redlynx and Ubisoft did me dirty like this.