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Combing the two will never work. It can not ever work. You can never balance one without doing harm to the other. So why keep trying?
I believe a possible solution to this is to have separate gear.
Gear obtained in PvE will not function in the Dark Zone. This would allow for proper PvE gear balance.
Gear obtained in The Dark Zone will not function in PvE zones. This would allow for proper PvP gear balance.
People who want to PvP would have a decent basic set given when entering the Dark Zone and could then get better gear for Dark Zone play by playing in the Dark Zone.
The Stash in the Dark Zone would only hold Dark Zone gear. There could be a workbench and optimization station in the Check point to modify and craft (dark zone blue prints obtained in the Dark Zone) or improve Dark Zone Gear.
PvE players would have no reason to go to The Dark Zones unless they wanted to play PvP and get gear to do so giving them twice as much stuff to do from the same game.
The same would apply in reverse for PvP players that wanted to do PvE content.
This whole concept of mixing them seemed like good idea as it added an element of fear of being there, but I think the idea has worn off after 2 games and has really caused nothing but problems in terms of balancing anything at all and feeding a us vs them (PvP vs PvE) mentality.
PvE content could continue to be added for one side and the Dark Zones could get bigger and more content added there for people that want it.
It would require a bit of work and the idea needs to be wholly fleshed out but I think would be a win win for both types of players.
Senior Member
Senior Member
I totaly agree to this idea and think they should do it.
Although the PvP players will start to whin abit i am afraid.
Lets face it. Most of the players in DZ doesnt want to have pure PvP
They want to kill easy targets (PvE players)
This is a fact and dont need to be argud about.
The DZ today is created after this. dont know why but it is.
I realy realy like this idea.
Another idea is to get more conflict areas. But they need to prevent somehow
all this CS style. this is a cover shooter and i would love if they could force players to act after it.
instead of running around it should be forced to use tactics and strategies to win.
flanking manouvers etc etc.
Member
+1
Awesome idea. Although, given TD2 just came out 60 days ago this would be a great meeting for the DEVs to have prepping for The Division 3. Personally I play 95% PvE but I go into the Dark Zone to increase my chances for getting strong loot. Personally, I think they got it right(to an extent) in the Division 1. I hated going into the DZ looking for loot only to have it taken by Rogues but that was the POINT!!! Also, this made the Recal station and Optimzation station imperative. If you managed to scavenge some loot from the Dark Zone you could recalibrate it, then go back into the Dark Zone and take out the Rogues!! This new recalibration and lack of optimzation is not enjoyable in my opinion.
Senior Member
That's because the DZ is not a PvP arena. There is absolutely nothing structured, fair or otherwise consensual about the DZ experience. It's a PK environment, fullstop. The fact that players *might* consent to consensual PvP battles in an area is irrelevant.Originally Posted by Nennee Go to original post
There are no rules in the DZ.
Why is this so difficult to comprehend/understand?
Maybe the Devs should do a comprehensive article stating exactly what the DZ is and clear up these misconceptions once and for all...…
If you want PvP there are other modes (Conflict etc etc ) that cater for PvP.
Member
The discussion of what to do with the DZ has gone on for years. There have been many solutions posted about what to do and how to fix it. I myself made dozens of posts in detail with suggestions on how to make the experience better but it falls on deaf ears, or a blind eye given this medium.
Someone, somewhere has this dream of a working PvPvE zone and will not let it go. It's never, ever going to happen. Yes, you can create incentives (aka force) PvE players into the DZ in order to make the PK gank crowd happy but most PvE players want nothing to do with it.
Member
That would mean having to grind twice to get geared for the player who wants to do both.
It would be much simpler to just have a "Normalization" that switches values, attributes and traits to DZ-specific ones when you go in there. They could be attributes/traits that only drop inside the DZ and can be "recalibrated" over LZ ones, like your Opportinistic in the LZ can becomes "Extra Armor Damage vs. Players" when you go in the DZ, for example. We already have the UI capable of switching between regular and normalized stats, so it would be just a matter of adding an extra "DZ stats" to that cycle.
Senior Member
What I do not understand is why this argument is brought up time and time and time again...…..Originally Posted by Natfrog Go to original post
Yes, PvE players do not go in there.
So what?
Who cares at this stage? You have a cracker of a LZ and Raids to boot.
The Devs have the numbers. We do not. We can pull any amount of numbers out of our rears and sprout that the DZ is empty and it will not make an ounce of difference.
Move on.
Accept the fact that whoever wants to go in there goes in there and whoever wants to stay outside the window looking in is doing so. Whining about 'Oh but we don't wanna get ganked so we don't go in' is for all intents and purposes irrelevant at this stage when it comes to bettering the DZ experience.
The DZ caters exclusively for those that DO want to go in. Let's all concentrate on that player demographic and make it better for us/them. Let the rest of the players continue to fog up the windows with their breathing looking in - they will in all probability never be placated.
Member
I whole heartedly agree, and I love you good sir.Originally Posted by Natfrog Go to original post
Seriously though, I understand where OP's suggestion is coming from, but I don't think it's valid nor workable.
You're basically wanted to split a portion of the PvE game into a PvP section. You need to realize, that is drastically different than having a PvE mode, and a PvP mode.
Since Dark Zone is PvPvE, you're basically putting the entirety of Dark Zone into PvP's custody. Which is ****ing ridiculous.
Division is a PvE game at heart, the core game is of PvE. PvP crowd would argue PvE players already have a huge Light Zone, but so what? If you're strictly for PvP, and wanted to do PvP fair and square, the gaming market is already flooded with a huge variety of PvP genre games, with dedicated developer teams balancing, and tailoring that PvP experience. But hey Conflict is already that way, you don't have to go far, but you don't want to touch that, because why?
Simple as that is -Originally Posted by Goo-Goo-Man Go to original post
PvE players don't want to get ganked. > Thus they leave once they get ganked / back stabbed. = Lowering DZ player count.
PvP DZ players want to gank. > Thus they go in to find easy prey. Because of the point above, prey amount are decreasing. No prey, no fun. = Lowering DZ player count.
Portion of PvP players wants to PvP > They do Conflict. = Doing conflict, thus not in DZ, Lowering DZ player count.
Portion of PvP players wants to PvP inside DZ > They go in DZ, but due to all three points above, they don't often get what they want, so they ended up ganking. = Vicious cycle of lowering DZ player count.
DZ caters exclusively for those that DO want to go in, and thus because of it catering to a very exclusive type of players, hence it's not popular.
It's like you go to an office party of a hundred associate participating. And out of that hundred, there's one vegan.
Yea, that vegan should be bringing their own food, instead of asking the caterer to make a portion of the food vegan.
Division 1's DZ "succeeded" was merely because the game partially forced everyone into it. Thus increasing the player count, whether they were willing or not.
Division 2's DZ "failed" because the game no longer force you to go into DZ (or not as much) to progress, giving the players the power and the choice. And it ****ing shows.
Member
You're ignoring his point. Why?Originally Posted by Goo-Goo-Man Go to original post
While there is a number of people who genuinely want to do actual PvP, the vast majority simply wants to prey on people going in there for something else, not for PvP, as anyone who played Div1 knows. There's not really much that can be done "on that player demographic" as PvErs have no reason to go in there anymore, so the actual large mass of players who would forcibly populate the DZ in Div1 isn't going to be there. You even expose that yourself in your previous post: people who go into the DZ don't want an organized PvP match or they would just focus on existing modes for that; they want this unrelatable so-called "thrill" that was fed by the unwilling for the vast major part. Even if you say you want to go Rogue and be Manhunt, that was accomplished by farming the non-PvPers in Div1, and then attracting some PvPers after you. You can tweak and change and adapt the DZ as much as you like, but what is making it so empty isn't mostly "cuz it sucks" on a mechanics level, it is because the "prey" won't bother being there and any attempt to bring them in with exclusive content or upgrades will face huge backlash.
