MarcoStyle's video on PvP | Forums

[Ravezaar74]

I agree 100% with MarcoStyle, Devs really messed things up here and the Fan Honeymoon is over now so lets be honest: They did great on the PvE side of this game and PvP side is among the worst failures Iv seen. If we can praise them , we can also say whats really bad and i dont think a PTS can save the PvP, a complete rework is only solution and as Marco says that will never happen. And because of that I think mine and many other PvP players days in this game is numbered.

[Disneyadventure]

My opinion aligns with marco's as well . Speaking of Wow I might go back to that till this beta is finished .

I think there will be many gamers going back once Classic launches.

I know that I will be there as well as my whole guild here.

[Disneyadventure]

There was minimal skill involved in many of the things i saw and experienced in D1 DZ

There's no skill in one shot nuking someone on first sight.. normally from behind as they are engaged in a furious battle during a solo extraction.
There's no skill in "warping out" when your almost dead, because the player you ganked came back to hunt you down and settle the score..
There's no skill in sitting behind a wall your not meant to be inside and "winning" over anything on the "right" side of that wall.

I spent a lot of time in the DZ in D1, as a solo farmer.. and as a part of a cheater hunting crew, mostly trying to avoid the Redskulls as it was super rare they'd ever actually want a fair fight..
It was rare to find Rogue's with any form of honor that wern't exploiting something.. sometimes you'd get "as intended" gameplay encounters.. but the most of the time it was kids having a laugh because they could get away with cheating or ganking without any repercussions unless you hunted the little PoS down and filmed him.. sent it to Ubi.. etc..

I haven't even looked at D2's DZ... because I know all them chuckleheads will be back, exploiting stuff and having a great time at others expense,, not what i paid for sorry.. that's not PvP.. there's a whole 'nother term for that kind of player... When I feel the need for some PvP.. I'll hit conflict. or play something else.

The DZ is really the best place to farm though by simply clearing landmarks.

If you are in a group of four the rate drop is a constant thing.

Once you get past the people camping the gate everyone pretty much leaves everyone else alone, except for the odd rogue that doesn't last long if you are in a group.

Though we did have a single one take out all four of us the other night but he waited until we were engaged then shotgunned us.

Outside of the instant deaths from zoning in that was the only time I was actually killed in the DZ.

Can't do anything about coming out the door because you are dead before your game is finished loading you in.

[The18thFret]

I've never played PvP in TD1 or 2, for PvP I play Counter-strike, a game built from the ground up for PvP. The Division, despite all its' flaws, and some questionable decisions by the Devs, has always been a PvE game to me. The PvP in TD1 made me cringe, all the "git good" crew thinking they actually have skill, no, they'd get destroyed in a game like CS, they just knew what talents and perks to stack to get the edge!

As a D1 PVP player, PVE scorne like this has always been the norm for us. Mainly because players like yourself were kind of forced in to the DZ as the end game back then, since the LZ had very little to offer, before the DLCs came out, and even then it got repetitive. So a lot of PVE players hated the DZ because they would come in just farm and get 'ganked' by 'git gud' crews. It was a flawed system.

The good thing is that in TD2, the LZ now has plenty of Loot. There was literally no reason to fragment and anesthetize the DZ. Marco is right. Pvp just doesn't feel good any more. The fact that there's very little variety between builds also isn't helping matters.

[sandpants]

I can appreciate that there are little to no mechanics in this game.

But to claim that Critical Save and On The Move were compelling mechanics in TD1 is a stretch as well.
Critical Save was not difficult to trigger; hence hardly a demonstration of skill.
On The Move still has synonymous value with Safeguard. The latter might not let you tank more in an open fight, but almost double healing makes it possible to come back with full armor into an ongoing fight if you manage to break away.

Rest of the mechanics described are just as broken. First AIDS was a ubiquitous skill option as it was one of the few that were useful.


Not denying that TD2 PvP sucks. But TD1 PvP was only fun for a slightly larger minority that it is now, that's all.
Massive is really out of touch when it comes to PvP.

[Eremoo]

It's pretty hard to give feedback on darkzone because it's a mode that has PvE and PvP combined, but anyway..

I've already put more hours into div2 then I did div1 but I did go in the darkzone in division 1. Honestly I play the game for the PvE portion of it, so I'm not a fan of having to fight "hard" enemies at landmarks and then get randomly ganked by a squad. To me that's not PvP, that's someone taking advantage of you by having more numbers and just because you're busy fighting something else.

So my style of play is to just avoid anyone if I can, I'm there for loot. I'd also like to group up and coordinate with people and get gear but it seems that any cooperation within DZ is gone, everyone just goes rogue (or not if invaded) and just shoots on sight. At that point, why is there even PvE in the darkzone if all people do is try and fight people? Might as well go conflict.

I prefer the PvE in DZ than to open world because it's less static, and having players able to fight you adds to that, but at the moment, there's just way too much fighting and there's no trust.

Also like he mentioned in the video, most builds will kill you in one second tops. You can't react, you can't run. It's whoever shoots first, or who has the most cheesy build.

I think going rogue should put you at a disadvantage. The manhunt tracking should just automatically be there as soon you go rogue (and add rogue to non invaded DZ). Right now everyone goes rogue because there's no one hunting rogues. If you wanna "ruin" other players experiences then you should have to fight uphill or be hunted (I'm sorry but if you're attacking someone whos PvEing thats honestly what you're doing, lets not kid ourselves and also DZ wouldn't work if there was no one doing PvE).

Should also remove normalization and maybe just add like a, lets say, 15-20% damage reduction vs players. Playing any build with normalization just feels awful, and especially because skill mod requirements stay the same, but your skill power goes down (who thought this was a good idea?)

Lastly, unfortunately the maps are just too linear. There's no roofs, there's no underground, no contaminated zones. And they are also separated. In division 1, I remember running a few zones if there were rogues in mine. Right now, you run to the checkpoint and wait until rogue activity dies down, or it says its 400 meters away. It's like you're trapped in with bullies (especially because there's matchmaking and you get in instances with way too many groups of people) and afking is the only thing you can do.

I know what I said probably goes against someone who likes DZ because of pvp, but there's 2 sides to the DZ, I gave feedback based on what I like. Let me group up and cooperate with people without being constantly ganked. I know that there's pve in the normal game, but just matching for a mission is boring, and also enemies have way too much health in the normal game when you group up. It's also not "natural", its just a premade mission or control point.

Also to the person above saying LZ has good loot, that's true, but I think DZ is still the best loot / time played, and the activities are a lot less boring so there's still players gravitating to it, myself included, who don't wanna constantly fight other players. All in all I'm not arguing to remove PvP from DZ, but atm I feel like there's only pvp in it. For context, I haven't joined a single conflict, nor do I have any intention to

[JHazza007]

As a D1 PVP player, PVE scorne like this has always been the norm for us. Mainly because players like yourself were kind of forced in to the DZ as the end game back then, since the LZ had very little to offer, before the DLCs came out, and even then it got repetitive. So a lot of PVE players hated the DZ because they would come in just farm and get 'ganked' by 'git gud' crews. It was a flawed system.

The good thing is that in TD2, the LZ now has plenty of Loot. There was literally no reason to fragment and anesthetize the DZ. Marco is right. Pvp just doesn't feel good any more. The fact that there's very little variety between builds also isn't helping matters.

Good post, and completely agree. They had no need to soften the DZ experience for people such as yourself, Marco, etc, as PvE fans are not forced into it now. Like I said I do really enjoy PvP in other games, it's just quite unsatisfying to me in this franchise. I want to win a fight because my aim, or reflexes are better, not because I procced' 5 mechanics before starting a fight, that makes me a demi-god.

[Nennee]

I think there will be many gamers going back once Classic launches.

I know that I will be there as well as my whole guild here.

Wait what !

Classic ?

Tell me more plz.

[Goo-Goo-Man]

Lol I knew it but I just had to waste 15 minutes of my life listening to yet another whine from MS...….

"Aaah I just don't know, it's just not The Division 1...…….Let's look at The Division 1...…...Division 1 Division 1 Division 1...…."

Whilst PvP in TD2 is far from perfect, I'm personally thankful it's not The Division 1 and hopefully we'll never return to the joke that was The Division 1. I also sincerely hope that this is his swansong as far as TD2 is concerned.

He seriously needs to move on back to The Division 1. He's doing himself no favours with these pity-party vids.

[Floppinger26]

Can´t really comment on pvp since I´m not much of a pvper, but there´s one thing I disagree on with Marco. He said, he can´t see Massive overhauling the skills, I wouldn´t be so sure about that. Most skills being useless gimmicks isn´t just a pvp issue.
While AI enemies, unlike a human opponent certailnly give you the time to use skills mid fight skill builds don´t exactly shine in pve either. And most offensive skills are just "why even bother".
Whow I used a 2 minute cooldown skill to do the same I could have done with a burst or two of my gun....

I have the Chem Launcher equipped for heals, and the Assault Turret as it is sometimes useful for distracting enemies. I´m using the Chem Launcher 95% percent of the time and mostly forget about the turret though. And while I do try to vary it up, I always keep returning to those two. Skills need to be less clunky and more useful, that applies to both pve and pvp.