MarcoStyle's video on PvP | Forums

[Nvkla]

i watched about 5 minutes of that whiny little girl and had to cut it off so im sure i missed some "good" stuff.

Im not saying things cant be improved, one of the two DZ's(not occupied) could be moved to not be normalized to give some people more options.

Well at least that little girl has a thing called the brain, the thing u will never have peace

[EierKoek_]

pvp just thropy hunter hunting ground. ppl just hunt other players there for fun. i am a solo player so i am not gonna spend time in the DZ. i am not gonna be a target for those *******s.

[SakariFoxx]

like he mentioned, go to the occupied DZ if you want to test your build against other builds. The issue Marco has is that he dies when people shoot him now as opposed to d1 he could shake his mouse for a few seconds and then melt you down. Im not saying he wasnt any good, of course he was good and he knows alot of the ins and outs of how to get the most out of builds but without a high ttk and movement exploits he is just another player so i imagine he will complain until they do something he sees fit or maybe for the games sake he will just move on.

Do you think pvp in its current state is good ?

[moesuvious]

Do you think pvp in its current state is good ?

no, not at all. I have never been under the impression that the pvp in the Division has ever been good in any instance. Between the i can simply turn around and shake my mouse back and forth for the next 200 yards down the street and dodge 98% of the bullets doing so vs todays i move so slow i cant get out of my own way much less avoid another player, the pvp in the division has always been rotten. Just my take.

[Boris-Badanov]

I've just spent an hour on Path of Exile, not played it since TD2 came out, but I have to admit it's nice to feel powerful, as opposed to being a drunken, rookie recruit with no health and poor skills on the mean streets of Washington!

Yeah, I've played a LOT of games since 1980 and Path of Exile is really the only one that I keep coming back to, game after game, over the years. I have to admit, I need some new Acts now, though.

[Boris-Badanov]

On the subject of Marco, he needs to move on and stop crying so much already. All his D2 videos were becoming a salty whine fest. There are thousands of games out there, plus many more to be released. Pick one (or three)...

I've always enjoyed Marco's videos because he put a lot of work into them, provided some unique insights and offered a lot of good advice. But I have to admit that his D2 videos from the start have been disappointing. In one of his earliest D2 videos he mentions that he might be too burnt out to be useful anymore in the Division community. I think he may be right. Curiously, I seem to be having fun in the game, even as he has not.

[TimesLostArc]

I feel that many of you completely missed the point of his video. I want to clarify.

The PvP component of this game is very shallow. There is no depth. The Normalization is too aggressive in the game which renders any build diversity or role playstyle diversity unfeasible in PvP. The only viable role you are forced to play with is DPS. Any damage build. The use of skills for skill builds are being held back because skill power is broken. You are forced to use skills as a supplement. The payout from fully speccing into skill power to unlock mods that supposed to increase the power of your skills is asinine. This is why blue mods are being used. Skill builds are not feasible in PvP. That's why everyone is using the deflective drone with chem launcher healing. In regards to skill power, normalization also affects your skill power. If you met a certain skill power requirement to use a skill mod, you won't be able to use that skill mod in Normalized PvP.

Outmaneuvering your opponent is impossible due to the fact of movement. Responsiveness of movement and animations have been held back so there is slower gameplay. There is no turn around options for players in a PvP fight. You can't use skills in midfight engagements which hold you back from making plays to outplay your opponent. In TD1, you could turn around each engagement because there were options like on the move, critical save, triage, adept/competent and signature skills. In Destiny 2, you have these options as well. You have your class super ability or class abilities that can turn the engagement that will help you win the match. This applies to Apex Legends with legend's abilities. For example, pathfinder's grappling hook can help you win the game.

The level design of the dark zone is so linear there's no verticality in the gameplay whatsoever. Rogue mechanics are flawed. Especially, in the Occupied Dark Zone. Spawn switching exploit in Conflict is a real problem.

I bought TD1 and TD2 because of the PvP in the Dark Zone. I understand that players bought The Division 1 and 2 for the PvE Experience. I don't want to see PvE experience ruined by PvP. That said. The PvP is in a terrible state and it needs change if the devs want PvP players like me to stick around. In my opinion, you can only do content for PvE to the point where it gets too repetitive and this is where PvP shrines. PvP is an alternative option for replayability. There is room for improvement for PvP.


Let's keep this conversation constructive. No reason to flame Marco for stating his opinion. No reason to flame each other. No one is asking for TTK to be like in TD1.

There are improvements that can be made that would more depth to the PvP. It would be more fun than it is now.

You get it!

It seems everyone missed his point on playmaking. There are no options for you outplay another opponent. To me, that's real the problem with PvP alongside with normalization.

Time will time. Redstorm has to address these issues in the next state of the game. We shall see.

It looks like they still have really missed the concept. In their defense, Marco did mention a lot of the cheese from the first game that people despised, so they are justified in that.

Okay, lets try this again.

On PvP in another title that Marco tried to mention, Rainbow 6 Siege; there are several outplay mechanics that are not cheese or exploits.

In Siege, if your opponent has walled off an area or fortified a position, you have several options.

1. You can use an operator like Thermite/Hibana and Thatcher/Twitch to disable the devices preventing a breach and open the wall.
2. You can use Maverick to blowtorch a hole into the wall
3. You can use Sledge/Buck/Shotguns to destroy the floors below or above the Objective to shoot in or drop grenades
4. You can use breaching charges or Ash to destroy walls or floors to shoot in
5. You can Fuze above the Objective

To each of these solutions, there are counters too.

1/3/4/5. You can roam the areas they might set up and kill them before they can do enough damage, set up Yeager ADS, Destroy the Twitch Drones, etc
or place a Valkyrie Camera/Evil Eye to spot the attackers in these areas and shoot/C4 them from the other side of the floor/ceiling.
2. You can listen out for Maverick and shoot him once he makes the holes

With every problem in the game you have one of several options to deal with them. That is the depth. People in Siege also used cheese like drop shotting, crouch spamming, and quick peaking. Most of that has been removed, nerfed, or is soon to be nerfed. I would throw the chicken dance and all the other exploits into this category.

What Marco is asking for is a set of counters and reversals to tactical situations in the Division 2 PvP. His examples were poor, so that is why I am throwing in my own.

The Division 1 had the really cheesy push button Signature Skills, broken gear sets, and instaheals. They were okay for counterplay, but really we should want something more.

Snipers are a great tool for outplay, but there also needs to be an outplay for those. Shield Drones are effective, but a lot of the skill mods don't work or are still valued outside of what most people can use.

Everything needs a tactic or counter. I am wanting us to avoid the signature skills, instaheals,and other assorted cheese from the first game, but there needs to be more depth and outplay potential. Hopefully fixes to skill mod scaling, new not-broken gearsets, specializations, mechanics, and other add-ons can add some depth to this. This adds layers of strategy and tactical skill that makes the game rewarding for those who put the time into it.

We can all make fun of Marco. He is a grown man and is certainly able to take the ridicule. Still he has a point here. Despite the fact that he is burned out and probably going to look like he is 60 when he is turning 30 at this rate of burnout.

[moesuvious]

nah, im still gonna hate on him. He chicken danced his way right out of my line of sight, my situational awareness took over long ago.

[Goo-Goo-Man]

He is a grown man....

Yes, he appears to be just that.

That said, in order to garner a modicum of respect from his fellow peers, he should start acting like one instead of hosing down his avid band of followers in the MSMoshpit with his particular band of D2 disdain.....his pity-parties have gotten really old a really long time ago.

…...and is certainly able to take the ridicule.

Lol

His conduct nicely contradicts that particular statement, no matter how veiled or clever his attempts at hiding it, and he tries, by golly how he tries lol. It's the cornerstone of his 'not-so-spectacular' stumble from grace.

[TimesLostArc]

nah, im still gonna hate on him. He chicken danced his way right out of my line of sight, my situational awareness took over long ago.

Yes, he appears to be just that.

That said, in order to garner a modicum of respect from his fellow peers, he should start acting like one instead of hosing down his avid band of followers in the MSMoshpit with his particular band of D2 disdain.....his pity-parties have gotten really old a really long time ago.



Lol

His conduct nicely contradicts that particular statement, no matter how veiled or clever his attempts at hiding it, and he tries, by golly how he tries lol. It's the cornerstone of his 'not-so-spectacular' stumble from grace.

It is fine to hate and make fun of him. Marco is clearly burned out and we can all see that.To some he was the embodiment of all the things that annoyed us about the Division 1.

Still, to get back on topic. I would like to talk about the concept of outplay. Marco's examples were some of the worst cheese from Div 1, but there is a point as I also mentioned about counters in Siege and how similar counter-play mechanics could work in the Division 2.

Countering One Shot snipers could come down to cover/shield drones/shields/new specializations/etc that don't involve chicken dancing or other types of irritating cheese. Improving the viability of gadget mods, adding new specializations, gently nerfing outlier weapons like the M700 Plain Jane are all options. These counters could also have their own series of counters and so forth. I think that was the idea Marco was trying to convey. Marco did not make those suggestions, because he is so burned out that at this point, I doubt he can see the forest from the trees.

Marco may have been a flawed messenger, but the concept is a sound one.