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  1. #1

    Legit feedback from a Combat Vet / State of the Game

    Gooooooooood Morning Ubisoft.

    I wanted to post this thread in good confidence to let you guys know that, One; I genuinely enjoy this game. I think it's a good addition to the collection of Looter Shooters out there. And two; Let's be honest, this game does need more tweaking before the raid launches.

    I wanted to go over some things that could be changed to keep the continuity of the game flowing without making it too easy or any less rewarding to complete a challenging activity. Unfortunately, some of these activities are so outrageously difficult that the rewards aren't even worth it, and if the Raid is going to be anything like a Level 4 outpost on WT:5, then frankly I don't care if they drop BFG's from Doom, that just aint worth it.

    The biggest issue that I wanted to cover was TTK lopsidedness.
    The enemies in this game are just.... unbelievably bulletspongey. Like... OUTRAGEOUSLY so. Some of them wear heavy armor and whatnot, okay, Coolio. But the yellowbar basic rushers and grunts that take up to EIGHT MAGAZINES?! I'm going to be honest, the AI aggressiveness is awesome, but coupled with how hard it is to kill some of these 'basic' enemies it's teeters on the impossible. at gear score 500 and a well thought out build, I spent an hour at a Control Point, having enemies rush in from random patrols in the middle of a firefight, making it tier 4 without me wanting to be, and then being stuck with having to try and white knuckle through it. We tried getting help, made it worse. At the end of the day, our third man dipped out of frustration and we whipped, making it so we had to start the second phase again and we just left. My buddy, so frustrated with how it went down, actually questioning whether or not he even wanted to continue playing the game.

    Now, I understand that these enemies must be difficult, but the amount of damage it takes to kill them VS the amount of damage it takes to kill is frankly just... really cheap.

    Another way to address this is stunning. I've had enemies in tank tops rush me and take four 12 gauge shotgun shells to the chest and not even bat an eye. Grenadiers huck grenades at me even being bukake'd by four people, two with machine guns. I can tell you from real world combat experience; I don't care if you're wearing platemail, AR500 armor, or if you're in an EOD suit, if you get shot, YOU WILL FEEL THAT. That is a projectile traveling, sometimes, at two thousand feet per second stopping immediately on your body. Just because a dude has armor on doesn't mean he gets a hall pass from Isaac Newton. Now in solo play on normal difficulty this is not an issue, but in higher tier things, with how aggressive everything is and how much damage they take, they just... walk right up to you and gangland style execute you like you stole their grandmother's meatball recipe. Some part of that needs to be revised because PVE stunlocking is something that's truly necessary for encounters in games like this. It would also give more purpose and incentive towards more powerful weapons like MG's and Shotguns. Those weapons having a heavier capability to stunlock an enemy so that teammates can give them a ballistic treatment before they get walked on could mean the world.

    Now these are just a few things I wanted to touch on, I have other ideas but I need to do more toying around before I can come up with decent feedback on said things. I hope you take this in serious consideration to help with the state of the game.

    Best regards, Snarmeggedon (USMC)

    (Reposted from a different forum because I'm an idiot)
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  2. #2
    I keep saying it, massive is screwing up with difficulty.

    There are two was of doing this, increase the lethality and pack size , so mobs come in greater numbers l, deal more damage but their time to kill is reasonable, or this route, of small pack sizes, but bullet sponge boring enemies that take hundreds of bullets apiece.

    People have been complaining about bullet sponge since beta, they keep replying "we will look into it" but then continue to add bullet sponge. Now when you play tidal basin on hard to higher you need to dry hump the restock because you literally run our of bullets constantly. It's not fun massive, how are you not getting this.

    Increase the pack sizes and lower the tankyness of mobs. People want to feel like John wick in these games, no like one of the numbers in the ranks of the storm troopees trying to gun down a single jedi.
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  3. #3
    Really? I can kill any rusher with less than 1 magazine of smg, ar etc in a almost total garbage build just to achieve gs500

    Armored big guys are...well being complete bullet sponges are their goal and we need this to keep us in check

    Suicidal invencible sniper smg/shotgun freaks need be adressed before division 2 become know as "tactical camper looter shooter" because this is almost the only way to deal with out of cover freaks running to you all times with yellow bars and sniper aim while using smgs or stuff like that.
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  4. #4
    I also think that the high dificult in tier 5 is realy just ridiculous. I often see me wasting time in a group (all over 499) playing a mission on challenging dificult (not even heroic) until the final boss, just to see the group member leaving after endless failed attempts to defeat the boss, Usualy because we all are running out of ammo with no chance to restock durinhg the fight. Come on Dev's, if you create a game with such bullet-eating enemies, then please at least give us enough ammo! This is realy far from being funny anymore, it feels bad! With all the new features i like verry much, the battle-part of the game realy doesn't feel verry much enjoyable to me compared tro Division 1 at the current state of the game. Btw the game completely looses his solo-gameability after reaching tier 5 due to the verry high difficult, wich is verry sad i think.
    Wanna a solid solo-lootshooter? Then Division 2 is not a good choice at the moment, thats what i think.
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  5. #5
    I also think that the high dificult in tier 5 is realy just ridiculous. I often see me wasting time in a group (all over 499) playing a mission on challenging dificult (not even heroic) until the final boss, just to see the group member leaving after endless failed attempts to defeat the boss, Usualy because we all are running out of ammo with no chance to restock durinhg the fight. Come on Dev's, if you create a game with such bullet-eating enemies, then please at least give us enough ammo! This is realy far from being funny anymore, it feels bad! With all the new features i like verry much, the battle-part of the game realy doesn't feel verry much enjoyable to me compared tro Division 1 at the current state of the game. Btw the game completely looses his solo-gameability after reaching tier 5 due to the verry high difficult, wich is verry sad i think.
    Wanna a solid solo-lootshooter? Then Division 2 is not a good choice at the moment, thats what i think.
    do you notice there are actually a ammo box in every single mission at the final stage?????
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  6. #6
    jdkzombie's Avatar Banned
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    What I have deduced here is that we are red bar enemies to the npc's.

    Not veterans.. Not elites.. Red bars. With a smidge of armor.

    I am also a combat vet and I can tell you from experience that even wearing a IBA with ceramic plates, when you take an ak47 round to the chest plate, that shot knocks the wind right out of you, and get a nice big *** bruise to boot.

    My gripes are many.. Despite being able to kill relatively easily.

    The M249 does not cycle at no ****ing 550 rpm.. What dingle berry at Massive keeps ****ing this up?

    The M16A2 in real life fires 5.56 munitions.. In Division 2 it fires. 22 marshmellows. Fix this.. The recoil on this weapon needs addressed.. It doesn't kick like a mule.

    The FAL is a semi auto weapon.. Again you guys jacked this up.

    Shotguns don't magically hit like pillows at 20m. If I can get sniped with a 12g from a veteran engineer, then you can adjust my shotgun to do the same.. Or give me slugs.

    Body armor should be locational.. If the dude coming up to me is wearing IBA and I shoot him in the legs, I shouldn't be doing armor damage.

    Like OP said, unless you're walking around in battleship plating, you aren't tanking more than a few hits to the same area. I get the big guys wearing juggernaut suits, but you need to slow down the hammer bros.

    What is up with all the enemies being Barry ****ing Sanders? These guys would make mince meat out of Usain Bolt.. They go from standstill to dead sprint and can turn on a dime..

    Honestly.. I wouldn't care if the enemies still did huge damage to us, as long as you lowered our TTK on reds and purples.. There is absolutely no reason why a trash mob needs to do just as much damage as a veteran or elite enemy.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Mordnir Go to original post
    .
    The enemies in this game are just.... unbelievably bulletspongey. Like... OUTRAGEOUSLY so. Some of them wear heavy armor and whatnot, okay, Coolio. But the yellowbar basic rushers and grunts that take up to EIGHT MAGAZINES?

    If it takes you that many magazines to kill a simple rusher, which have the lowest amount of HP of all the yellow bars, then sorry, but you are either doing something wrong, or are severely under geared,
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  8. #8
    jdkzombie's Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by Lucifer6six6 Go to original post
    If it takes you that many magazines to kill a simple rusher, which have the lowest amount of HP of all the yellow bars, then sorry, but you are either doing something wrong, or are severely under geared,
    On alert level 4 CP's, yes.. Even with almost 40% extra AR damage, 50% dte, and GS502, your average elite can take 3 to 4 mags, and some can take up to 6 to 8. I've had some elites tank 3 crossbow hits from a maxed crossbow.

    When you can snipe the head with a Model 700, and hit for 250k on a completely non optimized headshot build and their armor bar loses only a single "pill", then yes.. Some enemies simply tank.

    Level 4 alerts are a long game.. It's best to sit way back and prioritize targets, at least until the enemy ai breaks and they all just bum rush you because Massive already stated their AI is broken.. They all register us as being low health all the time so they rush, but not the wishers only.. It's all enemies.

    I cannot count how many times a elite cp4 grenadier has tossed a nade at me, and I've looked over to shoot at a riot foam guy, only to turn around and have that same nade thrower walk up and sock me in the mouth and 1hko me.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Lucifer6six6 Go to original post
    If it takes you that many magazines to kill a simple rusher, which have the lowest amount of HP of all the yellow bars, then sorry, but you are either doing something wrong, or are severely under geared,
    Let me be more clear when I say this, I'm talking about WORLD TIER 5, And I'm talking about fighting enemies in a level 4 control point.

    I specifically said that on lower level, solo missions on WT5, this isn't an issue. I can easily kill about 2-3 red bars in a single magazine.

    But in an event, with how crazy multiplayer scaling is, on the hardest open world difficulty, I understand it being 'Hard', but I do not believe that I should have to dump 8 mags into a single enemy that has a private chevron with some armor and he just doesn't care.

    I have an AR that does 17k a shot, (which ends up actually being much more than that, I've pegged enemies for over 50k with this AR consecutively.) I have a build that facilitates survivability and damage output. My gear score is generally 500, changing more or less depending on what build I'm using.

    I appreciate the minimal effort you put into telling me that's I'm doing something wrong without any context on what that might be, but that doesn't help, friend.
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  10. #10
    I am also a combat vet and that has nothing to do with this "unrealistic game".

    1) This is a fantasy RPG/Shooter in which we have these magical enchantments on our gear and weapons.
    2) The NPCs magically reappear all over the place and we can run the missions over and over again.
    3) The difficulty for this formula will always be UNrealistic in order to balance risk vs reward.

    This game is not really any different than World of Warcraft when it comes down to it. You have gear that steadily increases in strength but in order to acquire that said gear you need to complete harder and harder content. So what makes content harder in TD2? More NPCs? Less Chokepoints? Less ammo or ammo restocks spread further apart? More NPCs that are stronger/tougher/have more HP?

    The bulletsponge issue is something that is not really an issue. The only way to make a "boss" perform like a boss is to provide that NPC with 1 or 2 of the following options:
    1) Insane Damage
    2) Insane Damage Mitigation

    If the "boss" does not have at least 1 of the 2 above bullet objects, then they are not really a boss now are they?

    A way to solve the "boss" issue, is to simply remove bosses from the game. In place of the bulletsponge "boss", add in MANY more NPCs coming at you at once, or a longer stream of them. Spread the # of bullets it would take to kill the boss into multiple NPCs and have that same value come at you for the "boss effect".

    I dunno though, it may seem underwhelming to just kill a bunch more bland nameless NPCs instead of having that 1 tough "boss" fight.
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