Little buff for Valkyrie | Forums

[Zombie.Face]

lets look at some numbers here vs. the valks (1400 ms.) 24 damage heavy.
Aramusha (500 ms.) heavy = 25 damage - almost 3x faster and more damage.
warden top heavy 40 damage
orochi (300 ms.) double top LIGHTS = 22 damage - 2 less damage than valks heavy
orochi top heavy 35 damage
shinobi (300 ms.) double lights any side = 24 damage - same as the valks heavy. this seem right? how hard is it to get a light attack on shinobi for the same damage as Valks heavy?
tiandi 35 damage top heavy, 37 if combo.
Don't want to go over all the characters but this seems a bit off to me as far as easy to get and risk of throwing. Valk also has health pool of the same as assassin characters. Her damage is way too low for the amount HP she has. Assassins are faster and do more damage at the cost of lower HP but the valk has the same HP and has no damage or speed. Her stamina takes maybe 1/3 at least just to open up characters because you can't just raw bash into players because its too easy to punish. These are just some of my opinions and reasoning for the valk to get a damage buff. No she is not fine on her damage currently.

[Zombie.Face]

I was off on a few numbers with the speed...300ms lights are 400ms.. but u get the idea I'm sure.

[Zombie.Face]

One more suggestion is to give the valk a zone attack that can be used in fights. Maybe that could help her a lot if she had a zone threat too.

[Velentix]

I don't have any info on Valk at the moment, but what do you guys find to be weaker about Valk in comparison to other warriors that she would need a buff?

I would like to see her recovery looked at after her sweep, currently someone OOS can GB her, and imo that's a bit much. she needs a damage update like the warlord got. I would be curious to see more of the thought process behind the sweep/light finisher. In my experience people can dodge both of them with the same timed dodge, and I've seen people dodge the light finisher by dodging into it and you can see her shield clip through them (not people with a dodge guard or deflecting mind you). I could see a back dodge being the only dodge for dodging the light finisher, it would make her end of combo more threatening instead of a free GB for your opponent. not that you can't get these moves off, but when all you have to do is block one light to shut down a combo or chance a super telegraphed heavy to get to your finisher, it makes it a bit tedious/light spammy to play as her (though, if you do as many mixups as you can, its not overly to get to her finisher).

I love her mixups, and they make her more powerful than most give her credit for, but I would definitely make her finishers more threatening. Also as far as her shield charge is concerned ( the back dodge one, not the heavy feint SB) I think its a good escape tool, but I almost never use it for anything else. you could make it more worth using by giving the fullblock back, or giving her hyper armor throughout it if you still want her to take some damage during it. these changes would definitely make her one of the more dangerous heroes on the roster, so you'd probably have to go back and tweak them, but I think that its a good starting point.

[Siegfried-Z]

Thanks for the response! What I've seen also around the community is that her heavy damage and stamina are fine as is; however, her shield tackle should be looked into.

Does everyone agree with Siegfried-Z's post on what should be looked into with Valkyrie or would like to share their own frustrations/suggestions based off your personal experience?

Welcome.
Tbh i dont remember anyone saying her dmg and stam were ok.

She has the lowest light parry dmg and same for GB (compared to others heavy on GB).
Only 13 dmg on her bash.

Stam? If you do 2 feint for GB instead of shield crush youre oos...

Only someone biased could say such a thing.

I also forgot it in my first post but as Velentix said her sweep need an improvment. It is too predictable, too easy to react and has a huge recovery. It is not worth it most of the time.

At least it is Urgent to buff her heavies, buff her shield tackle and stam.

Then a bit later you can fix her sweep and zone.

[Sweaty_Sock]

lets look at some numbers here vs. the valks (1400 ms.) 24 damage heavy.
Aramusha (500 ms.) heavy = 25 damage - almost 3x faster and more damage.
warden top heavy 40 damage
orochi (300 ms.) double top LIGHTS = 22 damage - 2 less damage than valks heavy
orochi top heavy 35 damage
shinobi (300 ms.) double lights any side = 24 damage - same as the valks heavy. this seem right? how hard is it to get a light attack on shinobi for the same damage as Valks heavy?
tiandi 35 damage top heavy, 37 if combo.
Don't want to go over all the characters but this seems a bit off to me as far as easy to get and risk of throwing. Valk also has health pool of the same as assassin characters. Her damage is way too low for the amount HP she has. Assassins are faster and do more damage at the cost of lower HP but the valk has the same HP and has no damage or speed. Her stamina takes maybe 1/3 at least just to open up characters because you can't just raw bash into players because its too easy to punish. These are just some of my opinions and reasoning for the valk to get a damage buff. No she is not fine on her damage currently.

You are literally taking none of her versatility into consideration

1) She fights in some regards like an assassin however has superior lights & a static guard that changes on dodge to give a superior block on dodge that guarantees 35 damage. She is more durable than an assassin despite the overall HP similarities. She has a dashback allguard that helps he backout of fights she doesnt want to be in (which should NEVER go back to the prework version, shes a hybrid not a tank)

2) Her heavies can be softfeinted on startup (including mid combo) into a bash that guarantees a light, both count towards her combo meaning she can now sweep from this point onwards (which is a very real threat as it guarantees 35 damage). This is an option... you don't have to. At this point your heavies are worth 32 damage (again feintable into a bash) & your side light finishers do 100 stamina damage & can situationally wallsplat/cliff or you can feint a heavy from the direction of the sweep and GB (with the threat of a bash, 32 damage heavy or sweep all rolled into one decision the opponent is forced to make)

3) the softfeint bash still counts as the first hit of her combo EVEN WHEN MISSED meaning increased light attack speed to followup light attack that closes out any dodge/GB attempt

4) NO damage?!?!? only if you are spamming lights (in which case pick a true assassin rather than a mixup intensive hybrid). Two lights and a sweep = 13 + 15 + 35 = 63 damage (65 if you dodge attacked on the first light). for comparison Warden two lights (18) plus full bash/top heavy (40) = 58

5) the recovery window on a missed sweep guarantees one GB or solid heavy back. bear in mind this is only achievable by dodging a very mixup intensive character where failing to do so costs you 35 damage for that mistake alone. There is no HA keeping her in this animation so one hit and shes back alive again as well (so a dodge attack will free her up to defend herself)

WHAT SHE DOES NEED (because she has aged slightly):

More damage on a GB (add a new combo chain that starts with a GB and just make the first hvy worth 30 damage in this)
More damage on a light parry - give her a version of shoulder pin that is parry-able and can be done off a parry (like final justice for the lawbringer) - guaranteed on light parry timings only
EDIT: and remove the stamina penalty for feinting her first heavy (leave it for the later ones)

If you give her much more damage in her combos you'd need to nerf out her versatility/combo potential which is kinda her deal

EDIT EDIT: I'm not trying to be overly negative however if she gets too much damage her kit will be simplified which would be an absolute shame

[Siegfried-Z]

You are literally taking none of her versatility into consideration

1) She fights in some regards like an assassin however has superior lights & a static guard that changes on dodge to give a superior block on dodge that guarantees 35 damage. She is more durable than an assassin despite the overall HP similarities. She has a dashback allguard that helps he backout of fights she doesnt want to be in (which should NEVER go back to the prework version, shes a hybrid not a tank)

2) Her heavies can be softfeinted on startup (including mid combo) into a bash that guarantees a light, both count towards her combo meaning she can now sweep from this point onwards (which is a very real threat as it guarantees 35 damage). This is an option... you don't have to. At this point your heavies are worth 32 damage (again feintable into a bash) & your side light finishers do 100 stamina damage & can situationally wallsplat/cliff or you can feint a heavy from the direction of the sweep and GB (with the threat of a bash, 32 damage heavy or sweep all rolled into one decision the opponent is forced to make)

3) the softfeint bash still counts as the first hit of her combo EVEN WHEN MISSED meaning increased light attack speed to followup light attack that closes out any dodge/GB attempt

4) NO damage?!?!? only if you are spamming lights (in which case pick a true assassin rather than a mixup intensive hybrid). Two lights and a sweep = 13 + 15 + 35 = 63 damage (65 if you dodge attacked on the first light). for comparison Warden two lights (18) plus full bash/top heavy (40) = 58

5) the recovery window on a missed sweep guarantees one GB or solid heavy back. bear in mind this is only achievable by dodging a very mixup intensive character where failing to do so costs you 35 damage for that mistake alone. There is no HA keeping her in this animation so one hit and shes back alive again as well (so a dodge attack will free her up to defend herself)

WHAT SHE DOES NEED (because she has aged slightly):

More damage on a GB (add a new combo chain that starts with a GB and just make the first hvy worth 30 damage in this)
More damage on a light parry - give her a version of shoulder pin that is parry-able and can be done off a parry (like final justice for the lawbringer) - guaranteed on light parry timings only
EDIT: and remove the stamina penalty for feinting her first heavy (leave it for the later ones)

If you give her much more damage you'd need to nerf out her versatility/combo potential which is kinda her deal

Man, do you realize the points you're talking about doesnt work most of Times ?

-Her side light finisher is moslty punished.
-Only average players constantly fall for her GB trap.
-Her sweep is almost always dodged on réaction, dont talk like if dodging her sweep was something skill to do, it is not.
-Yes she is not a tank but her shield tackle should be buff still. Not as it was before, sure, but stronger than now, because this is a dead moove atm.

So yes her sweep combo does dmg... but you took warden as an example, warden SB is by far a stronger mix up than Valk sweep. No doubts about it.
Dmg or not, Who care if the mix up doesnt work?

Her poor and slow heavies can be feinted for a 13dmg bash and even if she miss she can keep going ... ok is that enough to makes her strong ? No

Valk kit is full of holes and doesnt work as intended.

She is more tanky due to her fix guard than assassins, yes. But again, this doesnt make a heroe viable.

VALK :
Lowest dmg in game
Almost no frame on Dodge attack
Dodge attack gave light parry
Hardfeint require a ton of stam
Shield tackle is useless
Sweep mix up works only at low and average level
Perks are useless
They litterally delete her headbutt
Zone is useless
Feed a looot of revenge in 4v4
Sweep also sweep allies
Zero ledge abilities (she throw like a child)
No UB
No HA

In another hands what are her good tools ?
Shield crush. Ok it works : 13dmg 😎😎
Fix guard despite mooving like assassins .. why not, but we got better heroes for that such as Tiandi or JJ .
CC and deflect, good, but lots of heroes have this as well.
Ok decent target switching.

Thats all.

[Sweaty_Sock]

Valk feels like a boxer that keeps you watching their knockout hand while they jab you 30 times in the face - if you don't like it like you said, go play JJ or tiandi. Horses for courses

EDIT: shield crush hit = 13 damage & access to so many options your head should spin

[MCBooma16]

I do agree some things seem off, Valkyrie has to work harder for a 24 damage heavy than most characters, (Orochi top light dealing 22) but then again, Valkyrie is also capable of using quick lights. In fact, she has every chain possible, that would make her the most versatile base hero in the game...

I think, for a hybrid hero like Valkyrie, 24 damage on a GB doesn't make any sense. It should be 25 like every other regular hero.

She's mix-up intensive. It's up to the player to be able to mixup their opponent.

The lights are fast, that might pressure some people to want to parry. That's when you start throwing heavies.

The soft feint to shield bash can be followed up with a light OR heavy, go for mixing up an opponent.

The side light finishers SHOULDN'T be getting passed experienced players... If they do that's just an off day.

I also agree that if there are too many buffs to heavies, other parts of Valk's kit may need to be readjusted. That would indeed be a shame

I think the heavy chain needs to be 25-30-35. Or 25-32-36 perhaps.

[Siegfried-Z]

Valk feels like a boxer that keeps you watching their knockout hand while they jab you 30 times in the face - if you don't like it like you said, go play JJ or tiandi. Horses for courses

EDIT: shield crush hit = 13 damage & access to so many options your head should spin

I didnt say i dont like it. I love my Valk and thats why i am fighting for a fair buff to her.
I am not the kind of player who choose the heroe he plays just looking at how strong he is or not. I would never play JJ and Tiandi which are only mistakes Imo as they are not designed as their label (vanguard and Tank).

Edit : yeah, so many options which doesnt work 75% of Times.

It is like Vakris said to you about nobushi double lights dmg in another thread. Big dmg makes no sense if you can never use it.
As lots of options makes no sense if they doesnt work.

I would rather choose only 2 options but which works. Without a doubt.

I dont know why you keep saying Valk is so strong.
She is not the worst of course, but clearly lack many things to be a strong heroe.